The Rose Field - come over here once you’ve finished !

The fizzling out of the Oakley Street thread is particularly annoying. Why have it there at all? And Alice is a good character- you want to know more about her. I assume the massive army drowned in the moving lake which seems a tad unlikely.

Just finished The Rose Field. As I got closer and closer to the end, I kept thinking surely there isn't enough space left to wrap everything up, and I was right, there wasn't.

So many questions left unanswered and threads that went nowhere. What happened to Dilyara and Chen and Strauss? What about the men from the mountains? I thought the witches were going to join with the gryphons to fix the air etc?

I thoroughly enjoyed the first book in the trilogy, but fully agree that this one was deeply disappointing. So much (tedious) build up and then almost nothing gets resolved. Agree with a lot of the above, especially about the contradictory position on windows between worlds.

I was really cross at Serafina Pekkala being killed off - and having Farder Coram’s daughter but not telling him?

Malcolm, Lyra and Pan got to the Red Building easily via air thanks to the witches and Gryphons, but how did Bonneville and Delamare get there so quickly by land, and without separating? Why did Captain Schreiber and his men get blown up - they had been setting off bombs without problems everywhere else?

Why did everyone sense quickly that Asta wasn’t Lyra’s daemon but nobody could figure it out with the author and the dog daemon?

Olivier Bonneville could have been a really interesting character development and story arc - but as it was it was just not believable.

What happened to the people at the Research Station?

What will happen in Britain and with Oakley Street? And Alice, and Malcolm’s parents at the Trout?

Ionides was leading the 10,000 strong army. He appeared at the Red Building without them. Did they all die?

etc etc

Have just finished it and agree with many of the comments above. I enjoyed it, mostly, and there are some very good bits. But the whole premise that there are still openings into other worlds completely undermines the ending of Amber Spyglass. And it seems really unsatisfactory that there are so many people who can separate from their daemons when so much was made in the first books of their inseparability. I think he was trying to introduce and work out so many ideas that he forgot about characters and plot. I would rather stick with the original trilogy and the prequel- doubt if I will reread either of the sequels.

Well, Pullman has clearly either forgotten that he ever said that, or has backtracked due to a bad public reaction! Found the quote - it was actually in the secret commonwealth, not the rose field:

”‘You en’t never left Will really, have you?’
‘I think about him every day. Probably every hour. He’s still the centre of my life.’
‘We could see that, John and me. We could see that then. There was a question come up, as should we let you sleep beside him as you did? You both being what was it, only twelve, thirteen … We talked about that and it troubled us.’
‘But you didn’t try and separate us.’
‘No.’
‘And we never … It never seemed to be … All we ever did was kiss. Again and again as if we’d never stop. As if we’d never have to stop. And that was enough. If we’d been older, I don’t know, then it wouldn’t have been enough. But for us then it was.’ “

I can’t be bothered to look it up, but I’m pretty sure Philip Pullman had confirmed in earlier interviews that they did. And ‘justified’ inclusion of that element in TAS.

Oh, yes, I agree that the icky old man’s fantasy was still there - but at least it got abruptly pulled at the last minute.

I also agree that in the amber spyglass I was left with the impression that the (extremely young) Lyra and Will had sex, which I was all sorts of about, but I think that in the rose field Lyra does say that they didn’t. Which is a good thing, albeit another about-face in the plot.

It’s almost like this book was written by a completely different author who hadn’t even read HDM!

The icky old man’s fantasy was largely still there, just with the abruptly changed ending. It should have been properly taken out, in the preceding books and this one.

It also gives me the ick looking back the teens discovering sex theme in Amber Spyglass, which is a shame.

Ugh. Just finished it. What a disappointment. I was prepared to be disappointed, but this sadly exceeded my expectations.

Completely agree with all the points already made.

So many plot lines started and hinted at and not followed up at all.

A complete u-turn from the HDM sequence re: the windows. The angels were going to help close all the windows, so why were there so many left open in Lyra’s world? Surely they would have started there!

And yes, 100% Lyra would surely have gone looking for Will once she discovered that the ending to The Amber Spyglass was a in fact pack of lies and that the windows were fine. Especially when she realised that she had her own subtle knife. Or did Pullman just forget what he had written at the end of HDM?

I can’t really forgive him for not bringing Will back at all, he was such a great character. Even if it was just to see what he was doing in his life. And what was the point of killing off Serafina Pekkala? It added absolutely nothing to the story!

The magisterium plot bits, I just skimmed over. So dull. The world through the red building, all the “money is bad” stuff right at the end - the way it was written just seemed so contrived, as if Pullman was trying too hard to be clever - “oh, look, what is happening in this imaginary world is just like what’s happening all over the world in real life!”

I too was confused about the whole needing-to-separate thing to go into the red building, which was a Big Thing all the way through the books until they all got there and it wasn’t a Thing at all.

No idea why/how Ionides suddenly turned up in the other world at the end.

Literally the only thing in the whole book that I was happy about (other than Lyra and Pan happily reuniting, of course) was that Malcolm and Lyra didn’t get together after all. The thought of that just gave me the massive ick, it was like a middle aged man’s fantasy that every young woman must secretly lust after an older man.

I could (and do) re-read HDM over and over, but this trilogy and The Rose Field in particular is a one-time-only read for me, I think 🙁

Also - it doesn't make sense that people in general don't know that people and daemons can separate. It would be rare but it would happen, imagine one gets left behind on a station platform or something. It would be sad but not this huge terrible secret.

Yep, frustrating. Same comments as above really.

I enjoyed the second trilogy but there was so much hinted at and not resolved. I won't repeat what others have said. But even in the first book, that thing about Lyra being breastfed by Diana... What did it mean? Did it impact her? I was waiting for everything to come together and then it didn't. And spectres! Remember them?

It was really well reviewed and one reviewer said it was a more grown up book that didn't tie everything off neatly in a bow, and it's like reality in that the stories keep going. But I don't feel that's an excuse for the lack of cohesiveness.

Hasn't ruined Northern Lights for me at all but I don't feel it's been the same standard, in spite of a lot of great moments.

I loved, loved His Dark Materials. La Belle Sauvage was a gift, just right in explaining Lyra’s background as a baby. I found The Secret Commonwealth more difficult as a book with so many loose ends but I really thought the final book would tie the ends together and make sense of the journey. I was so disappointed. It ended with a whimper not a proper ending at all. Too many unresolved stories. Olivier Bonneville was such an unlikeable character. What about lovely Alice? Her story had just started to get interesting. I feel really let down. It felt as if Pullman wanted shot of them all.
I thought the lodestones ( what were they called? ) that gave two people the means to communicate with one another, were just a bit feeble. They just allowed texting because Lyra’s world had somehow not invented mobile phones. I am sure characters in Will’s world used mobile phones and the magisterium were aware of their use. It was all so very unsatisfactory.

Oh gosh yes I came on here with questions and now reading all the comments have even more!

What did the cryptic verbal message mean that Alice had to deliver? And did the end bit with Lyra and Pan talking about fixing Malcolm up with Alice mean that that was going to happen?

And yeh that woman who created new currency who took over from Mustafa Bay - what was all that about - guessing that’s the currency the old couple were talking about in the desert

so many questions (I also don’t realllllly follow what the rose oil stuff meant if I’m honest 🫠 but just happy to go along on the griffin/witchy ride…)

Agree @DiamondRBD, Lyra is still young and could do lots of things in life, a resolved ending wasn’t necessary, but there wasn’t even a signpost to a ‘next thing’ for her.

I understand why he left Will out, but doors between worlds being open left, right and centre and Lyra (and Pan) not even wondering about visiting Will’s world was inconsistent with leaving that part of the story in the past / elsewhere.

The editors must have been tearing their hair out!

How many hours have I just spent to get to that damp squib of an ending? So many characters, so many storylines, so many ideas, and very few of them satisfactorily brought together and concluded.

I was going to write more but I'm so cross but I will note how poorly edited and proofread it was. For example, what was Professor Seidel's first name?

I'm like most others - I was so frustrated by the lack of resolution of various plot threads and characters who weren't explained. No real explanation of what they are going back to, either the state of the world or the state of the relationships!
I just love Will and wanted him to be in this book when Lyra was so sad through Secret Commonwealth. In lieu of will, a proper ending doe her where you at least find out what she is going to do. The ending change point mentioned above would make sense - loads of build up to a romantic relationship, then there was an abrupt sentence from Malcom's perspective that it would never happen.

I felt Olivier Bonneville was under developed as a character given the whole book ends with him and Lyra.

Oh and the women who took over trade from Bay with the butterfly daemon- what was that all about? She seemed to have one of those disconnected daemons like in the other world? Was it infiltration? Was she responsible for his death?

All the stuff about crossing the desert being so difficult, but Iodonis just said I’ll guide you and then bam, they were suddenly at the red building? what was the point to all the build up.

And why was it a huge army?

So pleased there is a thread on this.

Just finished and I’m so disappointed and confused! It didn’t end properly.

I also want to know what happened to Alice?
how come Astra was able to be there (and others including Bonnevilles daemon) but there was the whole thing about them not being able to go in.
What was the thing with the daemons being dead?
The reunion with pan was totally rushed - there was no depth there at all. Just kissing. So weird. Gryphons got n poo re detail than that!
the whole undermining of HDM sits really uncomfortably.
all the build up of the relationship with Malcom, yet it was just left. There was the one comment that Malcom would never say the words he wanted to Lyra when she gave away the necklace he made to the Butlers.

gutted!!!

Don’t think storytold is a verb or word 😂

I like Malcolm but not as Lyra’s teacher / love interest! Or in relation to Alice.

What even happened to Alice - fantastic character two books ago - after London?

What if their daemons catch the covid type illness the people in the Ethel world live in, bring it back and bring a pandemic to their home world?

I liked the brother turning out to have some hopeful qualities, but that character wasn’t properly storytold.

Glad to have found this! So many good points made in MNetters’ posts!

I enjoyed that Lyra was doing better in herself in this book after such a misery fest in the last one. Also the musing on creativity and imagination and loss of it: could relate to that.

The journeying and anti capitalism themes got dull and the ending pissed me off: so abrupt and so many open threads, like posters say.

I read a newspaper article saying that the editor made him change the ending. I think he originally had Lyra and Malcolm get together, was told that could mean public criticism, and he changed it, but couldn’t properly see through another ending or erase his desire / plot direction - ew.

Everything you’ve said, @Imbrocator.

Exactly.

I’ve just finished it. I feel so perplexed by it, and I’m left with so many questions.

His Dark Materials was so robust and solid and well thought out. There were things Pullman wanted to say and he did so deftly. It left us with just enough unsaid that it made me want to reread them over and over.

It feels like the Book Of Dust trilogy is a dumping ground for all of Pullman’s ideas or philosophical wonderings without any coherent narrative to pull them into focus. I enjoyed so much of it, but it felt as if I were enjoying hearing about concepts he hadn’t finished figuring out how to use yet.

Worst of all, why oh why would Lyra, upon discovering that apparently the doorways between worlds are in fact good (and don’t cause spectres? And weren’t all closed by the angels at all??) try to reach Will? That would be the first thing, and yet it never even gets acknowledged that this man she loved first and most and longed for so powerfully might suddenly be within reach again.

The novel felt so ungainly and illogical. Lyra was a person who didn’t seem at all related to who she had been. I wish that Pullman had written about a different world in order to exercise his ideas, or a different character, rather than altering everything that was so wonderfully and poignantly resolved and leaving such a mess story in its wake. HDM was sad but it ended conclusively. This feels like a fictional retelling of all of Pullman’s fears and observations about the world, without any thoughts on how to address them.

This is so true. Another world with a doorway so far from England, live a little couple called Henry and Ethel with perfect English!

It took about a million years to get going and then Just ended. I was disappointed!

Made the HDM books (which I loved) pointless- the only window that can be left open is the window for the world of the dead- now it’s totally fine, in fact necessary, even though the angels insisted Lyra and Will could never see each other again which apparently they could have done the whole time.

Still don’t know what was going on with the depressed, German speaking dog daemon who didn’t belong to the lecturer.

Why is Malcolm younger? Why, also, is he remarkable?

The whole Gryffon fight with the random gold man in the cliffs was all a bit unconnected with everything else yet seemed to have a lot of time dedicated to it.

and lastly - I might have been skim reading so missed it- why did the aletheometer glass stop the fire when they looked through it to find the cave in the mountains? I felt like I’d missed something there but didn’t want to skip back on my kindle