Bienvenue à Marseille | 2025 The Count of Monte Christo, read-a-long

And there’s the Pierre v Dolokhov duel in W&P.. about 1810 or so in the story?
I think there’s a duel in Eugene Onegin too. Onegin always got on my nerves tbh..

On Noirtier - the detail I loved was that his epée was in his CANE! How cool is that! I think we see the cane in the chapter where Villefort goes to his father’s lodgings in Paris, but we don’t know it’s a murder weapon, we just think he’s a rather dapper chap! You have to be pretty fit and nimble to fight a duel so the cane was either purely decorative or a ruse…

Yes, that's right. It was in 'Nicholas Nickleby'. I remember being surprised that duelling was still a thing then. Crazy stuff! An honourable criminal indeed :)

The whole duelling thing is crazy. It was basically banned everywhere because hot-headed young men were killing each other far too often - see Romeo and Juliet.

Yet it clearly carried on, and had its own very strict rules and code of honour! If you wounded someone in a duel then honour was satisfied, the loser would be patched up and everyone would move on. If you killed your opponent you had to cover it up, and possibly flee the country. I seem to remember there was a duel in Nicholas Nickelby, and that was the 1830s or 40s, and the killers friends had to get him out of the country.

Barnstorming chapter though. I love the last sentence which describes Villefort storming out before he is tempted to finish off what is left of his father.

Oh in that case he’s still a criminal then! But an honourable one at least 😂

I also liked the fact that Noirtier sorted things out without the Count’s involvement. He’s a great character! And seems like a properly good man - the one really dodgy thing we knew about him turns out to have been not dodgy at all by the standards of the time, as killing someone in a duel was perfectly ok, I think?

Gosh! I was remembering that a friend of mine went out with this guy who suggested he couldn't live without her if she broke up with him, the creep. It's a kind of consistent male behavioural characteristic! Good on those women from the Middle Ages calling it out!

Yes, the 'moi' twist was brilliant, Fuzzy! And you're right about the Count never having met Noirtier; I hadn't thought of that.

By the way, on the motif of men supposedly dying for love, Alain Chartier's 15th century poem 'La Belle Dame sans merci" is a fascinating and quite humorous take on that theme. The male lover tells the lady he will die if she doesn't love him, and his death will be all her fault. She tells him in no uncertain terms that if he is silly enough to die for love, the responsibility will be entirely his own. 😂Which just shows that even in the Middle Ages, women conceivably found this kind of emotional blackmail annoying!

Exactly @cassandre I had the same thought, that the Count had nothing to do with this episode...as far as we know!
I thought it made a refreshing change in the story for him to be on the side-lines for once. He hasn't ever met Noirtier either, I don't think, in the past or in the present. It was a powerful moment, looking up the dictionary and spelling out 'Moi'.

@TonTonMacoute that's an interesting idea about the link to Sorrows of Young Werther! Napoleon loved that novel apparently. And Romanticism and melodrama do have some traits in common.

But I agree with others that 'Marry me or I'll kill myself' is a highly problematic courtship strategy!

@FuzzyCaoraDhubh I also loved the Noirtier chapter. I've become so used to the Count being the puppet master behind events, pulling the strings of the plot (even if it's unclear exactly how and why), but am I right in thinking that for once, the Count doesn't really have anything to do with the way this particular subplot has unfolded? Noirtier, Valentine and Morrel have managed to foil Villefort all on their own, which is interesting.

I think TonTon suggested earlier that Noirtier would have nothing to lose by revealing his involvement in Franz' father's death, and now he's done exactly that. Though now we know it was a duel not a murder, which makes it less criminal apparently 🙄

Having dropped off again as I was so behind I think I am back on track again. Enjoying the Valentine/Morel/Franz shenanigans but not Morel's emotional blackmail with his suicide threat.

Backtracking slightly but is the Count really such a master of disguise that no-one recognises him in his other personas?

Hoping to try and get back into a chapter a day. Let's see if I manage.

It would be interesting to know if it's a reference to Goethe's Sorrows or Young Werther, which was hugely popular nearly 100 years previously. The plot was basically young man suffers unrequited love, commits suicide. It was a bit more masculine than just wasting away which is what the girls had to resort to.

A bit later (I've read ahead a bit) he makes a reference to someone being dressed in black like a hero of Goethe, so maybe it was having a bit of a revival when this was written.

High drama today with Noirtier pulling the signed documents (some very detailed minutes of that meeting!) out of the secret drawer. Very exciting stuff and I enjoyed the back story. He certainly threw a spanner in the works with regard to the marriage between Valentine and Franz.
I'm surprised Valentine didn't swoon away! I wouldn't have been surprised if Franz had swooned away as well! Poor Franz.

Agree @cassandre that by the standards of the time that was probably the subtext, and would probably be seen as impossibly romantic. But to us - ugh, stop it already, what is wrong with you?

Yes that definitely makes sense Cassandre, it was the only way for her to get what she wanted without becoming the wrong kind of woman! And the fact that she does love Morrell is at least a mitigating factor in his threat I suppose!

I agree that the suicide threat is cringey. However, I suspect that Valentine (because she is portrayed as conforming to the traditional stereotype of the selfless, self-sacrificing woman) can't allow herself to stand up for her own desires in love. Woman pursuing her own sexual desire = a bad thing. So Morrell threatening suicide is a way out for her: a roundabout way for her to realise her own desire. She HAS to marry him, to save his life! It's not for her but for him! It's not selfish, it's an act of mercy! Sigh. But at least the two of them decide to be together.

Isn't it to do with his control over the inheritance?

Completely agree with the above and it also sounds like he is very immature.

I like how Noirtier is back in the frame and is the centre of attention. Wondering how he can help the lovebirds however!

I'd completely forgotten about Morrell threatening suicide.

Yes it's emotionally manipulative not romantic!

Agree about the suicide threat, especially as he had been so horrified when his own father threatened suicide.

I'm not so sure that it would have been seen as honourable in these circumstances. It tended to be honourable in order to avoid disgrace - like the bankruptcy his father feared. I suppose it might have seemed romantic at the time or writing though.

I’m all caught up and enjoying the story! Morrell’s threat of suicide doesn’t sit well with me though - I know it’s of its time and would have been seen as the honourable thing, but it’s so emotionally manipulative! Poor Valentine.

The chart is a great help @AgualusasLover

This week I read ahead but have missed out on following the conversation on here. Although The few chapters that I am in front pose a couple of interesting questions, I am anxious to hear what everyone else's thoughts are. I now have to wait until Thursday

I had forgotten Villefort's name is Gérard!

Impressive chart! Thank you Agua.