Did She Fall Or Was She Pushed? Dangerous Liaisons Readalong 2024

Looking back, it is an amazingly sophisticated book. The way that we unpick the true motivations behind the words on the paper for a whole host of characters, never seeing the inside of their heads, only ever the faces they present to different audiences. And the pedantic way he enables every single letter to come into the hands of Madame de Rosemonde at the end.

Rereading it's just as much fun as it was in the past, but reading with an older and post #MeToo eye makes me more sensitive to how terrible Cecile's treatment is, and how cruel Merteuil is.

They don't have economic power over the other characters in the book, (apart from the servants, who they can bribe or blackmail like pawns) because all the protagonists are upper class, but the sexual immorality of the upper classes was a feature in revolutionary pamphlets.

Marie Antoinette in particular was the subject of near-pornographic abuse for her rumoured (almost certainly completely fictitious) sexual shenanigans.

She was allegedly having affairs with male relatives, sleeping with her female friends, and manipulating Louis.

😅

Danceny is still an annoying twat 😂 this is another excellent point!

I agree that one of the most surprising things to me about reading this book is all the naughty things that people got up to for a book written so long ago. Maybe you're right Bishy that this was part of its appeal!

Interesting points, Bishy, especially your comments about the poor ordinary folk living a hand to mouth existence when others lived a decadent life. Very early on in the book Valmont made a big gesture to a woman when he gave her a few coins the time when he was trying to impress Tourvel. Crumbs from his table!

I think those two letters are weak. I'm glad they were dropped. Interesting interpretation! I would probably have leant towards melodrama but who knows! I missed the miscarriage reference at the time. It was a veiled reference in the French text.

I think we did well to keep the thread going with small number of readers. We might look into starting up again in the new year.

My version has a couple of deleted letters at the end.
Has this book totally corrupted my imagination or is the second letter talking about masturbation?

Yes! That's irritating!
And Danceny is still an annoying twat.
He conveniently forgot about his liaison with Merteuil when he became sanctimonious at the end.

The character I'm cross about is Prevan. Valmont and Danceny got their just desserts but he ended up being treated as a hero! Irritating.

I'm going to the read the intro next as well. I'm still not sure what Merteuil's trial was about.

Thanks for posting the summaries Tarahumara! I’ve enjoyed reading along with you all, and got a lot more out of the experience than I would have from reading alone. To be honest I’m not sure I’d have persevered through the grooming of Cécile had I been reading alone, so I surprised myself later by feeling I might encourage my teenage DD to read it.

Just like our previous fallen women reads, things have not ended well for our compromised heroines. Interesting that Valmont and Danceny also got their just desserts.

I went back to the introduction in my copy and it seemed to be arguing that this sort of depravity in aristocratic circles was a factor in the subsequent Revolution. I hadn’t picked up that MdM or VdV had economic power over the other characters?

Thanks for posting summaries on the thread Tarahumara! It kept us going.

Yes. It does sound like it. That's an interesting parallel with Cécile. Everyone has lost something or has been permanently affected by the end. Merteuil got a terribly hard punishment! Disfigured and living her life as an outcast. A kind of living death, really. Valmont's exit was quick and neat by comparison.

And that's all folks! So it sounds like Danceny becomes a monk as well as Cecile becoming a nun?

Letter 174: The Chevalier Danceny to Madame de Rosemonde

• Danceny accepts the terms that a Madame de Rosemonde set down regarding the letters.
• He's furious with the Marquise for corrupting Cécile.
• He doesn't love Cécile any more, but he can't hate her. Any innocent young girl could be as easily led astray by the likes of the Marquise and Valmont.
• He asks Madame de Rosemonde if she thinks he's done everything he should regarding this situation.
• When she's assured him of it, he plans to travel to Malta and take vows that will shut him off from the world. He just wants to forget everything.

• Madame de Volanges thinks she was right to believe that the Marquise de Merteuil would have been better off dying from smallpox.
• She recovered, but she's been left horribly disfigured. She even lost an eye to the disease and apparently looks pretty hideous.
• Someone mentions that her soul is now visible on her face.
• She also loses the lawsuit brought against her, and she's now heavily in debt.
• She flees to Holland, taking her diamonds, jewels, and whatever else she can get her hands on so her creditors can't get anything.
• All her servants refuse to go with her.
• Her relatives are left to try to pay off her debts.
• Madame de Volanges, as a distant relative, plans to help with that, but first she has to go to the convent to watch her daughter take her vows.
• She knows that Danceny has left for Malta and wishes there were still time to bring him back.
• She wishes she knew the extent of her daughter's guilt; it's hard for a mother to imagine her daughter involved in such terrible things.
• But she knows that thinking about couldn't have prevented it, and it sure won't be of any help in getting over it.
• "Publisher's" note: This is all there is. He's not prepared, for reasons of his own, to tell what eventually happened to Cécile and Madame de Merteuil. Inquiring minds might want to know, but they'll have to wait.

I think Madame Rosamonde is trying to protect Madame de Volanges. I agree it's not completely clear though.

I have really enjoyed this book. Such intrigue!

Letter 170: Madame de Volanges to Madame de Rosemonde

• Madame de Volanges discovers that her daughter Cécile has left home.
• Two hours later she receives a letter from Cécile saying she's decided to become a nun and asking her mother not to ask her why.
• At the convent, mother and daughter meet, but Cécile won't tell her what's happened.
• Volanges asks Madame de Rosemonde for advice about whether she should make Cécile marry Gercourt, who's due back in town very soon.

• Madame de Rosemonde will refrain from lodging a complaint against Danceny, but she asks that she be allowed to keep the letters in her possession unless he needs them for some legal defense.
• She won't disclose their contents to anyone.
• She also asks that he give her all Cécile's letters; she doesn't want to cause any more pain to Madame de Volanges.

• Madame de Rosemonde tells her friend that the rumors about the Marquise don't come close to the full truth. The truth is "a pack of horrors." Trust her.
• She advises not to reject her daughter's vocation and not to inquire into the reasons for her advice.

• Not content to be kept in the dark, Madame de Volanges tries to piece the puzzle together and asks confirmation from Madame de Rosemonde.
• What she's imagining is so bad that the truth can't be any worse.
• She tells Madame de Rosemonde what she already knows, that Cécile was hot for Danceny.
• She's afraid that the two of them might have sneaked some time together when she wasn't around to stop them.
• She's afraid her daughter's made a huge mistake by taking vows at the convent, and her only hope is that Danceny might do right by her and marry her.

I can't remember what letter we're on anymore. I found Mme de Volanges's denial of rumours quite comical and it reminds me a lot of how my mother behaves when she has decided what is true despite evidence to the contrary. It made me smile and grit my teeth.

'I have, happily, the strongest reasons to believe that these imputations are as false as they are odious(...) I have every cause to believe (...) It seems to me clearly proved...'

I have come round to thinking that Rosamonde is trying to shield Mme Volanges from the truth. I think this is her main concern.

Well my dear and revered friends, we are almost at the end of the book! It has been a really absorbing read.

I think that Rosamonde ends up with most of the letters in her possession so she really becomes a kind of depository.

Yes. I know. I'm going to think about it some more, the Rosamonde angle.

I thought it was to get revenge on Merteuil too Fuzzy.

I think if I was reading again I’d pay more attention to Rosamonde and Volanges as I was much more taken with the other characters. Rosamonde‘a main loyalty is to Valmont’s memory but I can’t tell how much she’s holding back from Mme Volanges out of piety and how much she is enjoying being repository of knowledge.

I'm not completely sure. First I thought that Madame Rosamonde was trying to protect her friend because the truth was too terrible to know. Or could it be that she is shielding Valmont and her family's good name?

I'm not certain about that either. Valmont may have had a reconciliation with Danceny, but did he release the letters to implicate Merteuil, because I was leaning towards that as the reason.

Enjoying reading the insightful discussion. I’ve found this quite a difficult book to keep pace with - the letters are so short and some sections so propulsive that I’ve often been ahead when I haven’t been behind. After reading your comments above I think I need a reread but I don’t think I could face the early parts again.

Poor Cécile. Sorely needed education and options in life. Will Rosamonde ever tell Mme Volanges in person what happened, not wishing to put it in writing, does she genuinely think it must not be divulged, or is she enjoying keeping her in the dark?

On Valmont/Danceny - I cynically read it as Valmont seizing the opportunity to get the letters out as evidence as much as a heartfelt reconciliation.