Did She Fall Or Was She Pushed? Dangerous Liaisons Readalong 2024

Yes, Valmont has his appealing moments! I would say that he's a bit softer than Merteuil...

I think Tourvel's life is tranquil but boring. She tries hard to repress her own attraction to Valmont, but she really is attracted to him against her better judgement (remember the Dijon letter, taped together again and stained with tears). Some of her letters come across as an exercise in self-deception; I mean, really, does she have Valmont followed as part of her campaign to convert him, or is rather that she's already attracted to him and hasn't admitted it to herself yet? In some letters we see characters trying to deceive other characters, but in some letters we see characters trying to deceive themselves, and I suspect that's the case with Tourvel.

She WOULD be happier staying as she is, but I don't think there's any real passion in her marriage. It's an arranged marriage, like almost all marriages of the time.

I know! I nearly started to like Valmont in Letter 57. I thought his thoughts on young love were very tender, showed sensitivity and he had some depth of character. And then the sign off...

La Présidente strikes me as a pillar of common sense and self sufficiency. She is happy as she is and would this man leave her alone! I wonder if this is really who she is or if she is protesting too much as you suggest, cassandre. If she did stop writing to* *him, it would put an end to it. She even says they keep going over old ground! Will we ever meet this husband of hers at some point?!

In letter 57, Valmont shows that he (unlike Shmoop!) has picked up on the lesbian hints in Merteuil's last letter: 'No doubt it is in revenge that you are getting (Danceny's) mistress into the way of committing small infidelities to him.'

Interesting discussion by Valmont on how if you fall in love, you enjoy every step of the process so much that you're less keen to rush into having sex. And then he makes the parallel between the two seduction narratives explicit: 'In the end there is, between Danceny's behaviour towards the little Volanges and mine towards my prudish Madame de Tourvel, only a difference of degree.'

Are you falling in love, Valmont?! Good idea to end your letter with a sexual proposition to Merteuil, just so she knows you're still a proper libertine!

Just posted a couple of Shmoop summaries!

Poor Tourvel; her values don't really acknowledge / create a space for female sexual desire. 'If livelier pleasures exist, I have no desire for them: I do not wish to know them.' She's protesting a bit too much I think.

It's interesting that her husband is such a non-entity in the novel. It's hard to believe that she has strong feelings for him when we never encounter him at all in the letters, apart from when he's mentioned very briefly in passing.

On the other hand, her argument that she prefers mental peace to turmoil has a lot to be said for it.

I'm glad she calls Valmont out on the disrespectful way he talks about his previous mistresses.

I have been really struck reading the novel this time round on how many parallels there are between the seduction of Cecile and the seduction of Tourvel. Both women write letters instructing the men not to write to them any more (which is kind of a double-edged message, because writing to say 'don't write to me!' is still keeping the communication going). And both men use emotional blackmail, telling the women that they're responsible for male feelings.

Letter 56: Madame de Tourvel to the Vicomte de Valmont

Tourvel finds the constant letters from Valmont tiresome.

She's a happily married woman, so why would she want to sacrifice her peace of mind just to get involved in a crazy love affair?

And she doesn't think much of his belittling the previous women in his life.

She says this letter will be her last. It's definitely over.

Letter 57: The Vicomte de Valmont to the Marquise de Merteuil

Valmont assures Danceny that an honorable love is best thing in the world.

The young man has now opened himself up completely to Valmont, so he and the Marquise can really start mucking around in Danceny and Cécile's relationship.

Valmont wants to convince Danceny that it's OK to pursue sex with Cécile, but he doesn't think the girl will give in before marriage.

And while they're at it, maybe the Marquise could grant him his reward early?

😂Fuzzy

😅😅

😂😂You made me laugh out loud just as I finished typing my Very Serious post on women's education!

Laclos was passionate on the theme of women's education; he wrote an essay on it ('De l'education des femmes'). Cecile is a glaring example of the inadequacies of convent education.

Incidentally, the French word 'education' at the time meant more than education in the narrower English sense; it meant one's whole upbringing.

However, the message of Laclos' essay on the topic isn't as straightforward as 'women should be educated'; he says that because society has effectively enslaved women, it's impossible for women to receive a good education in society as it is. Quite radical really! He was inspired by Rousseau and thought that women, like all humans, are born free by nature, but society enslaves them.

Poor Cécile. So naive.
Poor Shmoop. Also naive :)

I agree as well! The whole of letter 48 is one long double-entendre!

And Fuzzy, I also noted the homoerotic reference, which seems to have sailed right over Shmoop's head, ha.

Too true about Cecile being a blank canvas. In fact I think one of the other characters describes her like that, late in the novel.

Agree about that the scene in Letter 48.

There is another reference to homoerotic love in the line 'I think I love her more than Danceny...and sometimes I wish she were him' (translated). Cécile is like a blank canvass. She could easily become anything at this stage depending on who influences her.

Yes I agree @ViscountessMelbourne. I remember that scene very clearly from the film (despite seeing it a long time ago).

Letter 48, written on a lover's naked back, is the defining letter of the book for me, in terms of sexiness and duplicity. The Hampton film uses it pretty much word for word as I remember.

I like the bit where he breaks off mid letter to have another shag, then comes back and says "right at this moment you'd be completely safe from me".

Thanks Fuzzy, I always appreciate your insights too. This is such a brilliant novel.

It's great to have you along with us again cassandre. I always enjoy reading your observations.

Letter 53: So now Valmont is working on Danceny, and we have the 'education' of Danceny and Cecile unfolding in parallel.

Letter 54: Fuzzy, I'm pretty sure that the encounter between Merteuil and Cecile here is homoerotic. She's testing Cecile to find out how susceptible she is to pleasure, and Cecile seems VERY susceptible. Merteuil is contemplating the possibility of 'educating' her and turning her into another woman libertine. 'I have promised to undertake her education, and I believe I shall keep my word.' Interesting that Merteuil says she has long wanted to confide in another woman. She is very isolated from all other women; no one but Valmont knows what she is really like.

To me, Merteuil is easily the most interesting character in this text. She receives more letters than anyone else, and this is a novel where the number of letters you receive (as well as the number of letters you write) is an indication of how powerful you are.

Thank you Bishy for keeping this thread going!

I have finally caught up, phew! Only two weeks after I said I was going to... 😳

I've also read all the comments on the thread as I was going along. So many interesting insights!

Letter 51: Fuzzy, I agree that Merteuil's comment about the power of the older ladies is chilling. It also reminds me of how much more effort Merteuil has to put into preserving her reputation than Valmont does, because although they are both libertines, everyone knows he sleeps around, but Merteuil must preserve the appearance of chastity at all costs. Society's double standard for men and women...

I also note the footnote to this letter, where the editor expresses a virtuous horror at Merteuil's lack of respect for religion . Ha!

Letter 52: Valmont weaves an interesting narrative to Tourvel in this letter. It's a sort of conversion narrative, likely to play on Tourvel's religious faith: the man he is now isn't the man he used to be. And speaking of the man he used to be: poor him! Young and inexperienced, he was thrown into society, and women all surrounded him and expected him to seduce them, so what else could he do? Some crazy women-blaming here, and then he flatters Tourvel by implying that she's completely different to all other women. That's something that Tourvel herself is very keen to believe, and it's a big part of her downfall: she's so intent on repressing her sexual desires, and convincing herself that she's too virtuous and rational to succumb to extramarital love.

Letter 51: I liked the comment by Merteuil that she hated arriving late at the soirée and having to make up to the older ladies to keep them happy because they are the ones who can make or break your reputation.

Letter 54: It sounded sinister to me how she toyed with Cécile (trying to find the right words here!) and played on her feelings to test her self control. I'm not entirely sure what this involved. It's a bit obscure I think or is it me... This is following Danceny's departure when the two young ones had a chat by themselves and she was annoyed that nothing happened.

Also, the way she kept Mme Volanges from returning home when she wasn't feeling well was unkind.

Agreed Cornish. That was a powerful moment.
It was definitely a mistake allowing him to write to her!

Thanks for the summaries and comments. I’d read ahead to this point a week or 2 ago so back on schedule now.

I thought the letter where VdV writes to MdM about Madam de Tourvel’s emotion on him leaving - ‘leave me, monsieur, in the name of God leave me’ was the most powerful - she’s fallen for him, he knows it, and we see the difference between what she writes in her letters and how others see her.