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New Year, New Fallen Woman: Elizabeth Gaskell's Ruth Readalong

586 replies

BishyBarnyBee · 28/12/2023 07:42

Following the very successful Madame Bovary readalong, we have decided to explore another woman who refused to be bound by contemporary mores.
So shocking at the time, two of Gaskell's friends burnt their copies.

"Elizabeth Gaskell's Ruth (1853) was the first mainstream novel to make a fallen woman its eponymous heroine. It is a remarkable story of love, of the sanctuary and tyranny of the family, and of the consequences of lies and deception, one that lays bare Victorian hypocrisy and sexual double-standards. Shocking to contemporary readers, its radical utopian vision of a pure woman faithfully presented predates Hardy's Tess by nearly forty years."

We will aim for two chapters a week - a weekend chapter and a mid week chapter. If I have time, I'll try and do a ChatGPT chapter summary, but anyone else is welcome to jump in if I haven't got there first.

We start 1st Jan, so if you are up for a bit of Victorian passion, guilt, regret and redemption, sign up here!

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Thread gallery
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StColumbofNavron · 09/04/2024 21:21

Haha, the last three posts have made me laugh. I agree that the piety is a little wearing, but Kindle informs me there is only about 1h 43m left so we are coming to whatever climax there may or may not be.

I am very glad to have read this, even if it hasn’t always been enjoyable - from a plot or for me, a prose angle early on but once I started reading a couple of chapters at a time I really got into it.

BishyBarnyBee · 07/04/2024 19:33

TerryWoganFanGirl · 07/04/2024 18:09

Thank you for the chapter summary @BishyBarnyBee - I had got behind, then trying to catch up got ahead and now am back on pace! I think this novel comes alive when dastardly Mr Donne is in it so afraid I am hoping he comes back to disturb Ruth’s worthy sick nurse existence!

We're back to Ruth's moral redemption again, aren't we, which has always been the dullest element of the story. And Jemima is a reformed character too! We urgently need some character flaws, poor Sally's idiosyncrasies are having to carry a lot of weight here.

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TerryWoganFanGirl · 07/04/2024 18:09

Thank you for the chapter summary @BishyBarnyBee - I had got behind, then trying to catch up got ahead and now am back on pace! I think this novel comes alive when dastardly Mr Donne is in it so afraid I am hoping he comes back to disturb Ruth’s worthy sick nurse existence!

BishyBarnyBee · 07/04/2024 12:46

Chapter 29

In which life settles into a monotonous tranquility, Jemima and Ruth have a fond meeting, Jemima is married and Ruth finds a vocation as a sick nurse.

Life in the Benson household has settled down and in some ways, the fact that the worst has happened has relieved the fear of discovery and brought a kind of tranquility. Life is somewhat grey and monotonous but Sally has softened as she ages and brings a spot of brightness. She is outraged when her deafness is referred to, but when Leonard smiles at her indignation, she is pleased to have put a smile on his face. He helps her draw out her life savings to give to Benson and frames the now superfluous will so she can display the long words she is so proud of.

2 years pass and Jemima's engagement is now common knowledge. On the eve of the wedding, Jemima comes to the house and the two women embrace, Jemima asking for forgiveness and Ruth expressing her gratitude for Jemima's support in the painful interview with Bradshaw. The household offer their congratulations and Jemima enjoys Sally's contempt for what she wrongly assumes to be Jemima's wedding dress.

While Jemima is away, Ruth nurses the old lady she befriended during Leonard's illness, who has suffered a potentially fatal hip fracture. Jemima returns from the continent to find Ruth has an offer of work as a sick nurse. Jemima tries to persuade Ruth she deserves better, but Ruth is determined to find a way to be useful. Jemima is disappointed as she and Walter had planned to persuade Ruth to visit them often, but Ruth says she feels she could not visit - but would always come if Jemima were ill or sorrowful.

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BishyBarnyBee · 06/04/2024 19:01

ChessieFL · 04/04/2024 07:34

I’m also usually a bit behind so haven’t been commenting - by the time I’ve caught up everything I would want to say has been said!

However I am on time now. I did find the engagement scene a bit odd - one minute they’re pissed off with each other, the next minute she says his name and suddenly they’re falling all over each other! Very strange, although I know most engagement scenes in books of that time were rather similar, seeming to come a bit out of the blue when read with modern eyes.

And talking of reading with modern eyes, this is quite a hard book to read in a way because we are reading it with modern eyes, where we’re appalled at the treatment of Ruth. I wonder where the sympathies of contemporary readers would have lain? Would they also have felt Ruth was very hard done by, or would they have felt that she was a harlot who deserved everything she got?

I think maybe in the same way that Ruth holding Donne's hands meant she was ruined, it didn't take much social interaction for two people to know they were in a relationship? I think there is a social code which is a bit subtle for us but would have been very clear to the Victorian reader.

Farquhar and Jemima have re-bonded over their concern for Ruth, and she warmly expresses her gratitude to him. This new warmth emboldens him to ask her to call him Walter - which would take the relationship to a new level. She jokingly says he is too old, he is offended, then she relents and calls him Walter - which is an acceptance of his coded proposal. So it is not as out of the blue as it seems.

The other thing that grated on me was the reference to "the control which he should have a right to exercise over her actions at some future day". It's softened by the fact that she has just announced her intention to disobey him, but as I think I said upthread, it's as if the best a girl could hope for was to marry a benevolent dictator. It's the same trope of an older, wiser man taming a spirited young woman that we see in Austin. Obviously so much better than a controlling hypocrite like Bradshaw, but even so...

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BishyBarnyBee · 06/04/2024 18:39

It's a very interesting point, @Piggywaspushed. I think it may be only me that used Mrs Gaskell? Possibly because I'm doing the summaries and using Mr and Mrs a lot? Or possibly because she was Mrs Gaskell when I was doing my A levels? Or, as you say, because it's quick to write. Looking back at the thread, I've used a mixture of Gaskell, Mrs Gaskell and Mrs G without really thinking about it too much.

I don't relate to the premise that we are "supposed to" use certain vocabulary, as it implies there is a right way and a wrong way, whereas actually it's all just opinions, really. I can see why the publishers decided to use her full name, as no male author would be referred to as Mr X. And in fact I can't think of many other female authors referred to as Mrs - Mrs Beeton, maybe? Is that because it was rare for a married woman to be able to write? But I'd think she would have been very proud to see her name on the front of her books, and if she called herself Mrs Gaskell, I don't think it's necessarily disrepectful to use it now. I might just stick to Gaskell now it's been raised though.

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Piggywaspushed · 04/04/2024 16:06

narniabusiness · 04/04/2024 11:32

The use of Christian names is a pertinent point given that it marks the point at which Jemima and Farquhar become engaged. Ie it signifies great familiarity.
Would the author want people outside her family to refer to her by her Christian name? People outside her family wouldn’t have done in her day. I would like to think that Publishing under her own name (rather than a male pseudo name or as ‘ by a lady’) was a feminist act.

I wasn't talking about the time really, though but that there was a definite point in the book world in which Mrs was dropped. They still do this more in America actually with authors, including when they write reviews and critical essays and often female writers and academics complain.

narniabusiness · 04/04/2024 11:32

Piggywaspushed · 04/04/2024 09:23

I have a feminist question - please don't be offended anyone!

Are we meant to call her Elizabeth Gaskell now? I think we aren't supposed to say Mrs (defined by her DH and all that...)

When I was at uni the Penguin books all said Mrs on the front, now they say Elizabeth.

Of course Mrs is easier to type!

The use of Christian names is a pertinent point given that it marks the point at which Jemima and Farquhar become engaged. Ie it signifies great familiarity.
Would the author want people outside her family to refer to her by her Christian name? People outside her family wouldn’t have done in her day. I would like to think that Publishing under her own name (rather than a male pseudo name or as ‘ by a lady’) was a feminist act.

Sadik · 04/04/2024 11:13

I think it's interesting, while Bradshaw is obviously behaving badly, I suspect we're also meant to judge Farquhar for being (a) grateful that he didn't go any further to fix his interest with Ruth, and (b) jumping straight back to Jemima.

Obviously given how attracted he was to Ruth, another choice he could have made would have been to propose & to support her in life. Let's hope Jemima never falls short of society's standards, since it doesn't seem like Farquhar will stand up for her if she does.

And yes, I'm pretty sure that we're absolutely meant to be sympathising with Ruth, and thinking (along with Jemima), there but for the grace of god etc.

Piggywaspushed · 04/04/2024 09:26

I think a lot of writers challenged Victorian moral and religious hypocrisy. AFAIK, of the really famous authors, Hardy is the only one who really scandalised people.

Piggywaspushed · 04/04/2024 09:23

I have a feminist question - please don't be offended anyone!

Are we meant to call her Elizabeth Gaskell now? I think we aren't supposed to say Mrs (defined by her DH and all that...)

When I was at uni the Penguin books all said Mrs on the front, now they say Elizabeth.

Of course Mrs is easier to type!

narniabusiness · 04/04/2024 07:55

Interesting question @ChessieFL. I think if you were reading Mrs G at the time you were probably aligned with her way of thinking and she does go to great pains to show that Ruth was just a motherless young girl who is taken advantage of and who lives a blameless life in all other respects . I would put it in the same category as The Tennant if Wildfell Hall in that both books take an action that was widely condemned and explain how a decent person could have ended up taking that step. In Wildfell Hall it’s a woman leaving her husband iirc. I think both novels were written with the aim of challenging stereotypes and the unkind condemning behaviour we see from Mr Bradshaw.

ChessieFL · 04/04/2024 07:34

I’m also usually a bit behind so haven’t been commenting - by the time I’ve caught up everything I would want to say has been said!

However I am on time now. I did find the engagement scene a bit odd - one minute they’re pissed off with each other, the next minute she says his name and suddenly they’re falling all over each other! Very strange, although I know most engagement scenes in books of that time were rather similar, seeming to come a bit out of the blue when read with modern eyes.

And talking of reading with modern eyes, this is quite a hard book to read in a way because we are reading it with modern eyes, where we’re appalled at the treatment of Ruth. I wonder where the sympathies of contemporary readers would have lain? Would they also have felt Ruth was very hard done by, or would they have felt that she was a harlot who deserved everything she got?

BishyBarnyBee · 04/04/2024 07:12

Ginitwouldberudenottoo · 03/04/2024 17:57

Commenting to be able to find the post again
im playing catch up her, albeit very slowly !

I've never managed to be consistent in a Mumsnet read along and find I either fall behind or get gripped and read ahead. It's only offering to lead this one that's forced me to stay on track this time. But they have made me read things I wouldn't otherwise and I think they are one of the best things about Mumsnet. I think it's very normal to dip in and out, glad you made it back!

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Ginitwouldberudenottoo · 03/04/2024 17:57

Commenting to be able to find the post again
im playing catch up her, albeit very slowly !

BishyBarnyBee · 03/04/2024 15:58

Chapter 28
In which the Benson household adjusts to the new situation, Farquhar and Jemima bond in sympathy for Ruth, Farquhar rebounds in Jemima's direction and a secret joyful understanding is reached.

Every day brings new pain, as Eccleston responds to the news of Ruth's disgrace. The Bradshaw's empty pew causes Thurstan particular regret and he feels awkward meeting Jemima in the street but she grasps his hands with honest delight. She knows she must obey her father, but is desperate for news of Ruth. Her eyes fill with tears as she acknowledges that if not for her social position, her headstrong and passionate nature might have made her just like Ruth, or worse.

Leonard is barely coping, fearing to go into the streets to be pointed at as an object of remark. Ruth wants to be useful but "the waters of housekeeping had closed over her place" while she worked for the Bradshaws. She brings in a small income from occasional needlework, but the household budget is suffering the loss of her £40 salary and the Bradshaw's £20 pew-rent, which Thurstan has returned on principle.

Jemima and Farquhar have bonded over their shared sympathy for Ruth. He cares enough to be saddened by any censure of her name, but is thankful he never expressed his regard and thinks his affection was unobserved. Jemima had not only observed it but is aware that he has rebounded towards her largely because of her courage in championing Ruth. She asks Farquhar to visit the Bensons to enquire about Ruth. He begins with general conversation, and we learn that Donne has been jilted by his fiancee, whose Baronet father has been exposed as a gaming cheat. They discuss Leonard and hatch a plan to get him out of the house each day to collect Farquhar's copy of the Times.

The regular contact between Farquhar and Benson is a conduit for news between the two estranged families, but Jemima is frustrated by the lack of detail in Farquhar's reports. He agrees to visit to ask more penetrating questions and when she thanks him warmly, begs her to call him Walter. Jemima wants to yield to his tone of voice but she is afraid to give way and teases him that he is too old and it would be disrespectful. When he rises coldly to leave the room, an impulse makes her use his name.

He turns round, glowing with delight, while she turns as red as a rose and drops her eyes to the ground. They remain downcast for the next half hour, which Gaskell tactfully draws a veil over. An agreement has been reached but she asks him not to tell her father and they enjoy a secret joyful understanding in their hearts.

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Midnightstar76 · 01/04/2024 19:06

Well have raced ahead a bit as thought I was very behind. I feel at this point huge injustice for how Ruth is cast as this terrible person. When indeed the true villain is Donne. Dreadful how she is made to feel shame years later. Can she ever find peace in her life?

cassandre · 31/03/2024 22:22

I will never turn down an opportunity to read Liaisons, but I'd also be happy to go with something else depending on the common consensus.

If we did go with Laclos, I think a letter a day would work. Some letters are short, whereas others are much longer. The Spark Notes division of the text into 15 'exchanges' isn't a division that exists within the text itself. There are many different characters writing to one another, so the letters form a kind of network or web rather than being straightforward back-and-forth exchanges.

cassandre · 31/03/2024 22:15

Thank you for the summary, Bishy! I also liked Faith at the end of this chapter. Her response to her brother's worries that he made the wrong decision about Ruth is quite bracing.

And yes, Bradshaw's hypocrisy is appalling. The thing is, he's utterly confident that he has the moral high ground. Ugh.

As a pastor's daughter, I grew up only too familiar with the scenario of 'Ooh, the pastor has said/done something I don't like, so I'm leaving this church and finding another one' !!!

I like the way Gaskell has structured the narrative in stages, so that Ruth first encounters her past in the form of Bellingham/Donne finding out her secret, and it is only later that the rest of her social circle find out. It gives us the opportunity to see her rejecting Bellingham and showing some strong agency, before her identity becomes more widely known and her reputation is compromised.

StColumbofNavron · 31/03/2024 18:40

I’m happy to read whatever the majority decide.

Pamela, is another, interesting, if totally bonkers and rather annoying one.

Dangerous Liaisons sounds great though, I have never seen the film or read the book so I actually don’t have any idea about the story other than what the movie poster and the title tell me.

FuzzyCaoraDhubh · 31/03/2024 14:13

I would love to read Les Liaisons Dangéreuses. I would try to read it in French.

Thank you as ever Bishy for your brilliant summaries. I'm glad we have reached an interesting* *moment in the book.

Buttalapasta · 31/03/2024 13:18

I read DL 30 years ago but, unsurprisingly, can't really remember it. Definitely up for a reread! I read it in French first time around but can't remember how accessible it was.

Tarahumara · 31/03/2024 06:48

I've never read Dangerous Liaisons but I absolutely love the film so would be happy to join a read along. Or a poll is a good idea too.

BishyBarnyBee · 30/03/2024 22:54

Are we leaning towards Dangerous Liaisons for our next fallen woman?

Sparknotes has a full summary of Dangerous Liaisons organised in 175 letters divided into 15 exchanges. Those of you who've read it - would it work as a letter a day? An exchange a week?

Or if some of you have already read it, would you rather do something new to you? Should we do a poll?

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BishyBarnyBee · 30/03/2024 22:47

It was very hard for me not to do a Mrs Gaskell and insert an authorly comment when Bradshaw calls Benson "a man who has deluded himself into considering falsehood right". I was outraged on Benson's behalf that this hypocritical, self-seeking, pompous ass could criticise the practically sainted Thurstan, who never acts without searching his conscience for guidance. How easy it is for a supposedly religious pillar of the community to forget his own shortcomings while frothing at the mouth thinking of a beautiful young girl's sin.

Ruth's repeated thoughts that she would be better dead are very well written throughout the book, I think. It is literally the only way out she can see, and she is repeatedly saved from it by the goodness and love of the Benson household. It is noticeable that she is much quicker to reject the idea this time and that Benson is able to break through her trembling state when he tells her they love her too much for her to leave them.

Faith is also lovely at the end of the chapter - we've all had those days where what we needed was soft loving tones and a cup of violet-tea. I think she is right when she says the years of peace have made Ruth strong enough to bear what would have broken her when she first came to Eccleston.

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