New Year, New Fallen Woman: Elizabeth Gaskell's Ruth Readalong

I think Ruth is more a victim of circumstances than Anna K or Emma B because of the specific incident of Mrs Mason happening to spot Ruth and Mr B together on their walk, leading her to throw Ruth out and into Mr B's arms. If that hadn't happened, who knows the direction things would have taken? Probably Mr B would have got bored of Ruth after a while (without anything untoward happening between them). This comes on top of the earlier coincidence of them bumping into each other when the little boy nearly drowned, so soon after their first meeting at the dance. To me, this is a weakness of the book, because it seems that Ruth's downfall relies too much on random chance events, rather than a natural progression based on the personalities and situations of the characters.

Having said that, I'm really enjoying the book! The above criticism hasn't spoilt it for me.

Yes @StColumbofNavron What I do with Dickens is read the installment before the end of the month so that I have a run of a few chapters and that seems to work. The Woman in White was a reread for me so it was different.

@FuzzyCaoraDhubh That might partly be my issue too. I have fallen off all the Dickens readalongs but I did manage A Woman in White, but I think that is because I saved all the chapter and read them once a month. I'm going to read both chapters together and see whether that helps. I'll be here until the end irrespective.

Ruth is a less complex character than Anna K or Emma B. I found these two very intriguing. I feel intensely sorry for Ruth as a victim of circumstances (Mr. B!) and being so young and coming from a sheltered background doesn't help at all. I really like the last paragraph in your post, Bishy.

I have a confession. I've read the book. I think I got used to reading a chapter a day from the other read alongs. I feel I needed to read more to get a sense of the book. It's a quiet book in a way, as Piggy said. I'll say no more. I feel I've spoiled things for myself but I'll read along and comment carefully. I have been enjoying everyone's observations very much.

Yes, @cariadlet - I want more Benson and more Old Thomas. Though I know nothing of the story, so am unsure we'll get either!

I've had a busy week so had read chapter 4 but not had time to post anything and then read chapters 5, 6 and 7 today (reading a chapter then popping in here to read the summary and comments before going back to read the next chapter).

I'd missed the intrusive I in chapter 4 but after having it pointed out, I couldn't help seeing it in chapter 5. I enjoyed the discussion about the device.

The contrast between the superficiality of Bellingham and the deeper character of Ruth is shown again. We saw it when they visited her old home and she saw the kind old man who had sat her on his knee when she was a child but Bellingham saw a rough labourer.
This time, Ruth judges Benson by his intelligence and his character while Bellingham judges him by his physical appearance and lack of social status.

I hope we see more of Benson and that he turns out to be a good friend to Ruth. She desperately needs one.

Incidentally, I was interested in the mention of the name foxglove deriving from folk's glove and possibly having a link to superstitions about fairy folk.

I felt desperately sorry for Ruth with the slights and cruel comments that she's received over the last few chapters. And the poor girl just accepts them and thinks that she must deserve them. She's younger than my own dd and does make me feel very protective towards her.

PS waving to @ShabanahFazal We were chatting on zoom this evening so I'm outing myself in here so you know who I am in RL.

I've been!
I went to a wedding in North Wales a few years ago, we made a weekend of it and I told my dp that it was the one place that I wanted to visit.

I love the legend although love is the wrong word because it's so tragic.

Is it because it's reverting to the first name you used in this thread @AgualusasLover ? I know it does that automatically now. Generally I must say I find very it helpful if I've name changed for a thread, it stops me accidentally later posting under my regular name.
Separately I agree, Ruth is so lonely that any speck of affection is enough. And of course, she went off with Bellingham after having been turned off by Mrs mason.

To me, this feels like a 'quiet book'. Tess is much more knowingly dramatic?

Argh… this name thing is driving me
mad.

Objectively, I see all of the above, I really do. I don’t remember liking North and South that much either, so perhaps I just don’t connect with Mrs Gaskell. I just have very little opinion or draw to any of the characters for any reason. The man she met in the woods I have found the most interesting so far and I hope he features
more.

I might read ahead to next week, because maybe that is the issue, having a gap maybe means I disengage so I might try a bit of momentum and see what happens.

Interesting comments @AgualusasLover - not least because I almost feel exactly the opposite. Which is, of course, why reading literature as a group like this is so great: to see how others read it.

But I see Ruth as being very vulnerable indeed to grooming and can see why she has hyper attached herself to Bellingham. The grief and loss of her loving home and the subsequent bleakness of her existence has left her too open to the mearest kind words that Bellingham has offered her. She desperately needs love and has found something she has mistaken for love in entirely the wrong place. He doesn't need to be a charming cad to hook her. He just needed to show her some shadow of affection.

Whereas, I always found it hard to really connect to Tess and never saw why she stuck around Alec when all her senses tell her he is dangerous and she doesn't like him. Why she continues to stay with him post rape (I know there is much debate about the degree to which what happens has any consent from her) and why she continues to think Clare is such a decent man when he does nothing but make me so mad I want to slap him

I’m not sure why, but my username seems to
fluctuate between two depending on which thread I am posting.

Anyway, I am StColumb hopefully with my new name.

I feel like my comments are going to come across as a little frivolous and flippant given all the wonderful chat and background. My biggest problem so far (and I realise it’s ridiculous) is that Bellingham just doesn’t come across as remotely desirable. I like my cads to
at least make me question my own feelings about them and help to understand why Ruth would be attracted to him.

I do see why:

• Anna falls for Vronsky’s charm and aoxiety
• Emma’s yearning for excitement with Rodolphe and Leon
• I like Willoughby and believe he esteemed Marianne but prioritised ££
• I understand how Wickham draws the Bennett sisters

But I just don’t feel it here.

I find Ruth herself a bit flat and I’m a little ambivalent to her. I feel bad feeling that way as I can objectively see the grooming, terrible way he treats her, and that her immediate future does not look promising. I remember quite clearly more than a decade
later feeling quietly terrified of what was happening to Tess when I read it and being shocked at every turn and stopping to comprehend the things that happened. I’m finding it so hard to connect with and I am not sure why.

Gelert = wrongly accused of a crime he was trying to prevent
Ruth = wrongly accused of the crime of trapping Bellingham in the relationship when the reverse is true

I wondered also if there was something in Mrs Bellingham bringing all the staff... like her view of doing the best for her son is to spend £. But doesn't have the same empathy with the sick that Ruth does, who knows Mrs Bellingham should not have worn the noisy silk dress in the sick room because it will disturb him.

Oh wow thanks @Piggywaspushed I may well do one day

If you go to Beddgelert in Snowdonia , you can visit said grave!

‘’I don’t think he would get better myself, though-Galert does not howl for nothing.”
I have no idea who Galert was/is so looked it up on Wikipedia and there is an explanation that Gelert was a legendary wolfhound and there is a tale of a missing baby and Gelert being wrongfully accused and killed and Llywelyn who killed the hound never smiles again. Fascinating! Another thing I picked up was the superstitions regarding health such as Mr B can’t possibly be on the turn on the fourth day, this would have to be on the third, fifth or seventh day.

I feel maternal towards Ruth and I have the urge to protect her.

I am a little surprised by her naivety. Surely a female of her generation had the importance of protecting their reputation drummed into them by the church and by society. I would have expected her to feel greater internal conflict.

(another feminist here who has rediscovered the joys of embroidery and cooking)

I felt very sorry for Ruth in this chapter. The description of the dawn over the mountains was beautiful.

I agree completely with you both. Feminism doesn't mean women have to reject the spheres of domesticism, arts and crafts, nature and so on: it just means that women get to CHOOSE them, rather than being confined to those domains and having tasks imposed on them whether they like it or not. To me, feminism is about more options rather than fewer. It's not about saying little girls can't like pink, for example; it's about saying little boys can like pink too, and little girls can like whatever colour they fancy, and if that colour happens to be pink, well, great!

Ruth does seem quite 'angel in the house'-like to me at the moment, but I assume that future plot developments are going to throw a spanner in the works and make her a more complicated character. It will be interesting to see what happens when 'angel' meets 'fallen woman'.

I'm also delighted to be reading a book by a woman author and seeing what she does (or doesn't do) with the usual gender tropes.

@BishyBarnyBee I seem to have run the same route from feminine to feminist to feminine-feminist :)

I am hoping that Ruth's self-sacrificing goodness will not turn her into one of Dickens' heroines. 'The angel in the house' always seems a 19C male fantasy of how women should behave and feel.