New Year, New Fallen Woman: Elizabeth Gaskell's Ruth Readalong

I'm still here too, and really enjoying the thread. I'm currently a bit behind with the book and finding the insights into the chapters I still have to read really enjoyable (and not spoilers, because I've read the book before and remember the skeleton of the story). Thank you, @BishyBarnyBee and everyone who's contributing. Hopefully I'll be able to participate properly soon.

The bookmark marks the last post on the thread that you’ve read, so when you go back to that thread it takes you straight to your bookmark/last post read. Saving a post is a bit like ‘favouriting’ it so you can find those posts later to reread, so works a bit differently to the bookmark.

The ‘thanks’ icon is just to pass your thanks to the writer of that post - it’s similar to the ‘like’ function of Facebook except that here only the writer of the post sees the thanks, nobody else does.

The time limited editing is deliberate so people don’t go back and significantly change what they wrote if people disagree with them. It would make threads very hard to follow if people go back and change what they originally wrote. It gets argued a lot that there should be an edit function but lots of people are against it for the reason I’ve given.

Hope that’s helpful!

Hi, I’m still around too. As I said before, I finished the book soon after the thread started but won’t spoil anything. Will pop back in now and again to read all the interesting comments and insights. The chapter summaries and your angle on them @BishyBarnyBee are also helpful in refreshing my memory, though as a long-time habit I also keep my own notes as I go along on most books. The characters in the Benson household were by far my favourite characters in the novel, so I’ll definitely go back to read what I thought at the time add my thoughts later this weekend.

But for the moment, in an off-topic aside, can someone please explain
the chat icons? I can’t find a guide anywhere on this site. I don’t get why there’s both a save and a bookmark icon? And why does the save look like a ‘like’ on Twitter, and how is that different from a Thanks on this site? Please excuse the stupid questions, but this thread is my first time on Mumsnet and it’s not clear. I also find any site that doesn’t allow editing - or only one edit - frustrating as I’m very prone to typos, belated self-corrections and endless afterthoughts….

I used this tool to check: www.officialdata.org/uk/inflation/1853?amount=50

I'm not sure. Earlier on the Bensons say that the money is enough to keep her for a week or so (in Wales) and pay for her journey back which makes it sound like not too much. In a book I have on Victorian London it says that in 1834 Dickens was earning £273 a year as a clerk which was a decent salary. £8000 sounds a bit too much I think? Anyway, I guess it was a big enough chunk to feel like a sacrifice to send it back. I wonder what the Bellinghams were expecting it to be used for exactly.

Ah - £8k assuming the book is contemporary/set about the time it was written. It now occurs to me, I don't know that for sure?

About £8k

Also - has anyone any idea of what that £50 is worth? Just wondering how much her scruples have cost.

I'm still here too although I seem to be permanently out of synch - I was behind but now am ahead! Thank you for the summaries and everyone's insights. I wasn't really enjoying the book at first as I found the character of Ruth rather insipid but she's growing on me. I am really enjoying the insight into the Victorian psyche, or rather the constant self-refection and desire for self-betterment from a spiritual point of view. It is fascinating and maybe we need a bit more of that these days.

Thank you to @ShabanahFazal for GM discussion too. It's been years since I read it. Really interesting.

Although if Ruth were on MN, I think everyone would be saying to her, Take the money! The equivalent of telling women now to file a claim with CMS and get those deadbeat dads to pay😂

@BishyBarnyBee , I adore your summaries and I'm still very much here! I just get bogged down by work sometimes. I have these intense 8-week uni terms, during which I find it hard to keep up with leisure reading. Those are followed by long breaks when I feel human again. And I'm just finishing week 4 of the current term, so am distracted and a bit overwhelmed.

Anyway, I'm still greatly enjoying the novel and everyone's astute comments. One thing on my mind is the huge double standard in terms of men and women having premarital sex: for the man, it's easily glossed over, whereas for the woman, it's life-changing. The fact that Mr B's mother judges Ruth so harshly, but doesn't condemn her son at all, is a vivid illustration of society's double standards.

The info about the women's penitentiary was very interesting; I had no idea that existed. I also reread 'Goblin Market' for the first time in many years; thanks @ShabanahFazal . It is such a sensual poem and I love the image of sisterly bonding and support.

The novel's current discourse is quite religious, but that's an important aspect of 19th c thought obviously. As a teenager and devout evangelical Christian, I read a lot of novels by George MacDonald, a Scottish preacher, and OMG the sermons went on for pages! As an adult I find the religious discourse more hard going, but there's definitely a kind of 19th c. Christianity that can be radical and socially lefty: the kind that extends compassion and understanding to people on society's margins, of whom Ruth is one.

Yes. Ruth is made of strong stuff. You would wonder what would have happened to her if she hadn't been taken in by the Bensons. It would have been the penitentiary, I suppose.

Great points in your post @LiesDoNotBecomeUs

I think that the offer and return of the money is also another way the author has of demonstrating that this 'fallen woman' was the more honourable person in the whole exchange.

It also (daringly) gets us to think about Ruth's situation from the inside (even though as respectable novel-reading people we would naturally see ourselves as so much above her in moral status).

Knowing that the money is so much needed and that keeping it could be justified by us (for care of the baby - paying those supporting her etc.) involves us more. (The author wants us to be wondering what we would do in Ruth's position - thinking like fallen women :) ).

It makes us see Ruth in new light again. It was a strong thing for a fragile being to do.

@LiesDoNotBecomeUs I agree the money would have made her into a paid off servant but in her naivety she has a very rose tinted view of what she thinks was love. I wonder if she will cross paths with the scoundrel again, and if she survives child birth if the child will be known to him.

I know what you mean about the £50 @Midnightstar76 I have a practical side too! She and they do need it.

She won't accept money instead of love - of course.

Wouldn't taking the money make her into a paid (off) servant - one providing very personal services as it is money for sex...

I think they should have kept that £50.00 between them all and wish it had not been sent back. They are certainly going to need it. It is a good plan they have with Ruth changing her name to Mrs Denbigh. Let’s hope it works and Ruth does not stumble across anyone she knows in Eccleston to disrupt the plan of Ruth’s disguise as a widow. Mr and Mrs Benson are very kind to take on Ruth and her future baby.

Definitely not on your own Bishy and I am still here too but catching up. Thank you for summarising.

I'm still here! And really appreciating the summaries. It feels like we're in a transition part of the book here, though obviously some heavy hints from EG that there are (more) rough times to come for Ruth as a result of the lie about her widowed status.

No worries, @BishyBarnyBee . Any time!!

Part of me is thinking 'good for you' as Ruth rejects Bellingham's money, but they could have put the fifty pounds to good use as well. They are as poor as chuch mice.

'Quivering sadness' is a lovely description. Very nice summary, Bishy.

I'd definately still out here! It's just been a manic week and I am a chapter or two behind. Hoping to catch up later this week and share my fascinating (not!) insights

You have divisions, Piggy?!
I raise you chapter headings.

I am also still reading along and appreciating the chat. I haven’t commented much because I’m usually a bit behind so by the time I get here someone else has already said what I thought!