Jane Austen

I agree and I can’t help thinking JA sees it too (bearing in mind what she says about Elizabeth and Darcy along similar lines!

Interesting that one character talked about it being a sin for a woman to marry a man she didn’t love. That feels as if it must have been very much a luxury belief in those days, when women’s options were so limited.

Jane Austen gave similar advice to a niece, though not worded quite so strongly. She herself also turned down at least one proposal.

Women's options were limited, but she must have seen among her acquaintances instances of women (and men) trapped in unhappy or unwise marriages and decided it was better to remain single than risk that.

Just finished Mansfield Revisited, thanks for the recommendations!

Yes, I enjoyed it - although the ending became obvious very quickly. Interesting that one character talked about it being a sin for a woman to marry a man she didn’t love. That feels as if it must have been very much a luxury belief in those days, when women’s options were so limited. I’d like to have seen her argue it out with Charlotte Collins.

Quite possibly. But at least it would have been a bit more interesting! I think the union of those two drippy souls is one of the relatively rare places where Regency mores don't translate too well. Given how vulnerable women were financially and reputation-wise, it does make sense to be scrupulous about your future husband's moral character. But ugh.

I also still want Lily Bart to marry Rosedale and step all over Bertha Dorset, though, so maybe I do have a secret weakness for women rising via rich husbands, despite never ever advising women to be so practical and mercenary about marriage on here IRL.

Miss Crawford is biased in her opinion, she loves Henry and wants to believe that he only needs a good woman to steady him. But Henry was not a one woman kind of man, he would have broken Fanny's heart eventually. While I believe he had feelings for her, mostly she was a challenge for him, once he had 'conquered' her and she had fallen under his spell he would have tired of her very quickly. Drippy Edmund and drippy Fanny were made for each other. (can't believe I just wrote drippy Fanny)

I saod on another thread that if Henry Crawford had married Fanny he'd rapidly have got bored with her unrelenting moral righteousness and would have sought out more congenial female company. He'd admire her for it and realise that he didn't measure up to her standards while simultaneously wishing he did (to earn her respect) and being glad he didn't (because he finds that unremittingly tedious).

Persuasion for me too. I just love the tension.
P&P second.

I haven’t read Emma since I was 17 and doing it for A level. I’ve had many attempts but find her irritating. Must try again.

I still get annoyed every single time I read Mansfield Park that Fanny doesn't accept Henry's proposal. Edmund is such a fucking drip. Yes, yes, Jane, I get your point that his running off with Maria shows him to be morally compromised blah blah. But I can't help but think that Miss Crawford is right and Fanny would have steadied Henry while Henry would have brought Fanny out of her priggish shell. Grrrrr.

Jane is supposed to be prettier than Lizzie, but I think it depends whether you judge people on the standards of Austen's time or modern preferences. Both Rosamund Pike and Susannah Harker are paler than Keira Knightley and Jennifer Ehle, for example. If you were going for Regency/late Georgian pretty then fair skin and rosy cheeks would be seen as more beautiful, whereas I think nowadays most people would prefer a darker skin tone.

Keira Knightley isn't curvy enough to be Regency beautiful.

Yes, few adaptations have the courage to cast a much prettier actress as Jane. I would also like to see a beautiful 40 year old as Mrs Bennet, not another shrieky old biddy performance. In fact, I’d like an adaptation, that acknowledged that Mrs Bennet is right to be desperate to marry her daughters, even if she’s also ridiculous.

I’d rank them as Mansfield Park, Persuasion, Emma, Pride and Prejudice, Sense and Sensibility, Northanger Abbey.

Also seconding a pp’s suggestion that fans of the Crawfords should read Joan Aiken’s Mansfield Revisited, which rehabilitates both of them, sends Fanny and Edmund to Antigua and has Fanny’s sister Susan as heroine.

I think that's right and PD James managed to keep the characters pretty true

The book was much better than the adaptation I thought.

Joan Aiken, not Allen!

Anyone tried PD James "Death Comes to Pemberley" - a crime sequel to "Pride and Prejudice"

I was sceptical when I picked it up but ended up rather enjoying it

I enjoyed it, but my expectations had been "managed" by the reviews I had read.

I had no idea that Joan Allen had written about Jane Austen's books. She was a favourite author of my mum and mine, and I have read a lot of her books, so thank you for the heads up.

I watched it. I made it through to the end, but it really was terrible. Bad acting, and entirely ruined the feel of the novel.

I'm also not keen on the newer adaptation of Emma, from a couple of years ago. This may be controversial, but I really liked Gwyneth Paltrow's Emma.

Can't believe nobody's mentioned how Catherine Moreland at 15 "began to curl her hair and long for balls." I can't be the only juvenile Janeite surely?

Can I just point out that Rosamund Pike was a perfect Jane in the JK P&P, so beautiful. I also enjoyed Brenda Blethyn's sympathetic portrayal of Mrs Bennett, although I think she was about a decade too old to play her.

I didn't watch it, but I saw it got absolutely slated by every critic and Austen fan everywhere. I saw the reviews before hearing of the programme's existence independently so I didn't bother even trying to watch it.

With Dakota Johnson? I saw the first 15 minutes and turned it off. And I really don't have particularly high standards for tv!

Did anyone else watch the Netflix adaptation of Persuasion? Genuinely one of the worst things I've ever seen. And I've seen some godawful shit!

I love Anne Elliot's family. They're all so bloody awful.

Persuasion is by far my favourite.

Then P & P

I quite like Mansfield Park. I can overlook Fanny being such a doormat. There was a film adaptation that really brought out the slavery in the West Indies element, which is only very lightly hinted at in the book.

S&S is ok. I don't like Northanger Abbey. I just don't like the mock-gothic style at all. I really can't stand the character of Emma in Emma, so I only re-read it irregularly, when I've steeled myself to her awfulness. Plus the age gap between her and Mr Knightley and youth are problematic (IMO a 16 year age gap might be ok if you're 70 and 86, it's really not when you're 21 and 37 and the older partner has been involved in the upbringing of the younger).