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Original poster

HAGS : the demonisation of middle aged women

43 replies

RRRException · 04/03/2023 16:28

Got this yesterday and cannot put it down.

Reading it almost weeping and punching the air at the same time.

Many references to MN. So many sections I need to highlight and read again.

What a fantastic read. Who would like to discuss?

OP posts:
Fiftyisthenewsixty · 07/05/2023 11:45

@PinkGrapefruitSorbet Thank you! No wonder I couldn't work it out! I think I might buy the paper book too as I don't feel I take as much in only listening.

PinkGrapefruitSorbet · 07/05/2023 10:05

@Fiftyisthenewsixty Just checked for you. It's INGTBI (no wonder Audible couldn't cope). Referencing the very start of the book and means I'm not going to be ignored (I'm sure you knew that, but I haven't read it yet so I was confused)!

Fiftyisthenewsixty · 07/05/2023 09:54

I've just finished this and found it amazing, and a bit depressing but I guess you need to know the extent of the problem to tackle it as uncomfortable as that is. One question: if anyone has the book handy, could you please tell me what the last word is?? (Before acknowledgements and after "dead"). I listened on Audible and couldn't work it out!

Original poster
RRRException · 05/03/2023 09:05

Re the Karen-ing of white middle aged women:

”Advice given to older women on “how not to be a Karen” can be indistinguishable from traditional advice given on how to be more ladylike, selfless, feminine and take up less space. In order to avoid the label we are told to “vent [our] anger elsewhere” “let someone else take charge” “have empathy” and “have a less offensive haircut”.

The Karen-ing of middle aged women has felt like a huge affront to me for years now and it’s just so good to see it taken apart in detail in one of the chapters.

OP posts:
JaninaDuszejko · 04/03/2023 20:23

Just added this to my wish list. Thankyou. The Guardian (probably the Observer) review is excellent.

Original poster
RRRException · 04/03/2023 20:23

PlaitBilledDuckyPuss · 04/03/2023 20:09

The full quote was: 'This rigorous defence of middle-aged women, who are ignored and vilified, is an often painful read and a future classic'

www.theguardian.com/books/2023/feb/27/hags-by-victoria-smith-review-welcome-to-the-age-of-rage

Show quote history

Ah ok. I didn’t find it painful, I found it cathartic. But each to their own.

OP posts:
PlaitBilledDuckyPuss · 04/03/2023 20:09

RRRException · 04/03/2023 19:58

The Guardian would…….!!

Not known for their liking of this demographic

Show quote history

The full quote was: 'This rigorous defence of middle-aged women, who are ignored and vilified, is an often painful read and a future classic'

www.theguardian.com/books/2023/feb/27/hags-by-victoria-smith-review-welcome-to-the-age-of-rage

ThisIsMyGCname · 04/03/2023 20:01

I’m going to get a copy but it might be a little while so am happy to dip into this thread once you’ve all got going.

Original poster
RRRException · 04/03/2023 19:58

redredredredlorry · 04/03/2023 19:57

@RRRException that's good to hear. I think the guardian called it painful to read or something similar which did put me off.

The Guardian would…….!!

Not known for their liking of this demographic

OP posts:
redredredredlorry · 04/03/2023 19:57

@RRRException that's good to hear. I think the guardian called it painful to read or something similar which did put me off.

Original poster
RRRException · 04/03/2023 19:18

redredredredlorry · 04/03/2023 18:23

I've been looking at this but really don't want to feel miserable if it's just about all the ways women are demonised and fucked over in society.

Will this just make me feel shit?

That’s not been my experience. I’ve found it really uplifting - unsaid frustrations and bubbling resentment voiced in an easy to read yet forensic articulate way.

OP posts:
redredredredlorry · 04/03/2023 18:23

I've been looking at this but really don't want to feel miserable if it's just about all the ways women are demonised and fucked over in society.

Will this just make me feel shit?

Original poster
RRRException · 04/03/2023 17:07

And the chapter on the “Karen-ing” of middle aged white women is fabulous.

OP posts:
Original poster
RRRException · 04/03/2023 16:51

There is a piece about an article published in UnHerd about a male GP who received a call from a desperate woman in her 50’s about her elderly father soiling himself and her asking for help dealing with this and the casual yet brutal way he dismisses her asking if she’s had kids saying she wouldn’t call up asking for help changing their nappies.

Then goes in to talk about how the person that took time off work to look after the babies will be the person to look after older relatives, not least bc of earlier career breaks /PT work meaning she earns less than male partner/male sibs. And anyway if the woman who has spent years providing such service says no, isn’t she just being mean?

So perfectly articulated.

OP posts:
Original poster
RRRException · 04/03/2023 16:44

PlaitBilledDuckyPuss · 04/03/2023 16:40

I intend to get a copy, it sounds really good from the reviews. There are a couple of threads in Feminism about it, too (I don't mean you shouldn't have started this one, OP, just that you might be interested to read them).

Thank you, I did see a couple but none were people had read it yet. Will have another look!

Im sadly going through it with a highlighter now as there is just too much goodness to miss! Almost wishing if bought it as a Kindle version so I could look up bits more easily!

OP posts:
AllAboutMargot · 04/03/2023 16:41

I've just ordered it and Amazon tells me it will be delivered tomorrow. Can't wait.

PlaitBilledDuckyPuss · 04/03/2023 16:40

I intend to get a copy, it sounds really good from the reviews. There are a couple of threads in Feminism about it, too (I don't mean you shouldn't have started this one, OP, just that you might be interested to read them).

WaggyTailsWetNoses · 04/03/2023 16:32

Ooh. I’ve seen it reviewed but haven’t read it. You’ve inspired me to give it a go. I read Hagitude which engaged me ( although I felt the author and I didn’t quite share a worldview).

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