Active discussions

Please or to access all these features

Talk
What we're reading

Find your new favourite book or recommend one on our Book forum.

Original poster

HAGS : the demonisation of middle aged women

43 replies

RRRException · 04/03/2023 16:28

Got this yesterday and cannot put it down.

Reading it almost weeping and punching the air at the same time.

Many references to MN. So many sections I need to highlight and read again.

What a fantastic read. Who would like to discuss?

OP posts:
New posts on this thread. Refresh page
AllProperTeaIsTheft · 24/10/2023 19:08

Bumping this thread again! I'm currently listening to this as an audiobook and finding it very cathartic and inspiring, even though it's in many ways depressing. The author just nails so many things in such a clever and articulate way. I find myself constantly thinking 'Why have I never made that particular connection or thought of that issue in that way?' The way in which society/ men have so obviously divided and conquered by turning different generations of women against each other is particularly hard to hear.

Totallynotwired · 22/09/2023 01:21

Joining this thread as really want to read this book and definitely would be considered in the "Hag" demographic,lol.

NailyDale · 22/09/2023 00:11

Oh, and the other bit that I can't stop thinking about is how outrageous it is that we demand unpaid labour from women all their lives and then as a final indignity, older women get a smaller pension than men because they haven't 'contributed' as much. Fuck.

NailyDale · 22/09/2023 00:09

I think I'll resurrect this thread rather than start a new one as therte's already some good discussion going.

I'm sharing a paragraph of the book that really made me stop.

No one is asking the people responsible for creating a need for domestic violence shelters to #bekind.

HAGS : the demonisation of middle aged women
BigMosLittleSister · 20/05/2023 21:19

Aha! Found you! Just started reading and will join in when I've read a bit more ☺

PinotGroggio · 13/05/2023 18:20

DriveInSaturday · 13/05/2023 12:33

I'm late to this thread, but I want to comment that the abuse of the name Karen existed well before the incident of the racist woman in the park in the US. And the racist woman in the park was called Amy.

So why was racism added to 'Karen's' list of offences, rather than ascribed to Amy, who could have been the new demon of a racist older white woman?

It's not just men that use Karen. Young women use the Karen meme against older women. Amys tend to be younger than Karens, and they aren't going to demonise themselves.

Also, if you can add a genuine bad thing (racism) to the not-actually-bad-things (standing up for yourself) that Karen does, you can justify despising older women for daring to speak up.

Bonus points for rewriting history to claim that Amy Collins' behaviour is actually where the term Karen comes from.

I didn't say it originated with Amy Cooper (not Collins), I gave her as an example. The term itself is older than that, yes, but it remains that it was coined for entitled white women who would weaponise their whiteness against people of colour. And women of colour get demonised long before they reach middle age - just look at Child Q.

SquirrelSoShiny · 13/05/2023 14:47

Thanks for the price tip off!

RaininSummer · 13/05/2023 14:44

Managed to get it using my computer. Don't have an iPhone but apparently can't buy through Amazon app. Looking forward to reading this. Thanks for flagging it up and replies to help.

ImAvingOops · 13/05/2023 12:44

@RaininSummer do you have an iPhone? The kindle app doesn't support purchases on iPhone so you have to buy through the website. Or link your account to your kindle and buy off the kindle directly.

DriveInSaturday · 13/05/2023 12:33

I'm late to this thread, but I want to comment that the abuse of the name Karen existed well before the incident of the racist woman in the park in the US. And the racist woman in the park was called Amy.

So why was racism added to 'Karen's' list of offences, rather than ascribed to Amy, who could have been the new demon of a racist older white woman?

It's not just men that use Karen. Young women use the Karen meme against older women. Amys tend to be younger than Karens, and they aren't going to demonise themselves.

Also, if you can add a genuine bad thing (racism) to the not-actually-bad-things (standing up for yourself) that Karen does, you can justify despising older women for daring to speak up.

Bonus points for rewriting history to claim that Amy Collins' behaviour is actually where the term Karen comes from.

mizu · 13/05/2023 12:30

This has been on my list for a few weeks. Looks brilliant.

SpongeBobJudgeyPants · 13/05/2023 12:04

I bought it, just typed it into Amazon search box. 99p copy is underneath the more expensive hard copy options.

PlaitBilledDuckyPuss · 13/05/2023 11:42

ThisIsMyGCname · 13/05/2023 10:18

My copy has arrived.

I don’t think I’ve ever posted a photo on MN before. Do you always get a “sensitive image” pop-up?

It's fairly new - doesn't seem related to what the image is.

PinotGroggio · 13/05/2023 11:32

@RaininSummer I bought it this morning with no problem but you need to go to .co.uk not .com.

RaininSummer · 13/05/2023 10:35

Trying to buy it on Amazon for 99p and it won't let me. Says can't do it through the app and to go to amazon.com e books but then it's not available. Bit sad about that.

ThisIsMyGCname · 13/05/2023 10:18

My copy has arrived.

I don’t think I’ve ever posted a photo on MN before. Do you always get a “sensitive image” pop-up?

HAGS : the demonisation of middle aged women
IcakethereforeIam · 13/05/2023 10:15

Pemba · 13/05/2023 01:40

Oops I started a thread saying about the offer, not noticing this thread. Sorry!

Even better, I was too lazyGrin

Pemba · 13/05/2023 01:40

Oops I started a thread saying about the offer, not noticing this thread. Sorry!

IcakethereforeIam · 13/05/2023 01:37

If anyone is interested in this book it's 99p on amazon today (Saturday 13th May) as an ebook.

Original poster
RRRException · 08/05/2023 07:08

PinotGroggio · 07/05/2023 21:02

Does she address the origin of the whole Karen thing, which was white women weaponising their whiteness against people of colour? Such as Amy Cooper and Mia Poinsetto.

I'm interested to read this though, and I'm also interested to see if she's spoken to any women of colour. Because we've always been demonised, and not only once we've reached middle age.

Show quote history

Yes she makes quite clear where it came from and that she hasn’t explored the race element at all in the book. She says that this is outside of her area of expertise and that she is aware that this book doesn’t go into this. I can’t remember but believe she may recommend alternative pieces of work/authors for this.

OP posts:
JaninaDuszejko · 07/05/2023 23:05

The Karen thing changed as it came across the Atlantic and in the UK it's not a comment on middle class racists it's simple abuse of working class middle age women.

PinotGroggio · 07/05/2023 21:02

RRRException · 05/03/2023 09:05

Re the Karen-ing of white middle aged women:

”Advice given to older women on “how not to be a Karen” can be indistinguishable from traditional advice given on how to be more ladylike, selfless, feminine and take up less space. In order to avoid the label we are told to “vent [our] anger elsewhere” “let someone else take charge” “have empathy” and “have a less offensive haircut”.

The Karen-ing of middle aged women has felt like a huge affront to me for years now and it’s just so good to see it taken apart in detail in one of the chapters.

Does she address the origin of the whole Karen thing, which was white women weaponising their whiteness against people of colour? Such as Amy Cooper and Mia Poinsetto.

I'm interested to read this though, and I'm also interested to see if she's spoken to any women of colour. Because we've always been demonised, and not only once we've reached middle age.

ThisIsMyGCname · 07/05/2023 20:53

I've ordered a copy.

PlaitBilledDuckyPuss · 07/05/2023 20:04

Impostersyndrome · 07/05/2023 20:01

Thanks for the recommendation. I've just reserved a copy from the library.

My library had to buy it in specially!

Impostersyndrome · 07/05/2023 20:01

Thanks for the recommendation. I've just reserved a copy from the library.