📚 "Rather Dated" February: Dorothy Whipple, Someone at a Distance 📚

Dorothy Whipple published some extracts from her childhood diaries about her idyllic upbringing and extracts about her process of writing ( inRandom Commentary) but I'm interested in what her own adult home life was like and if her marraige was a love match or marriage for companionship.

Her "close friend" George Owen ( whom she would have likely married) died in the first weeks of the Great War. She worked as a secretary for an educational administrator for 3 years, a widower 24 years her senior and married him in 1917 at age 24. She travelled with him to educational conferences where she observed people to get ideas for her books. Some commentators think that her first novel "Young Anne" is influenced by her own experiences ( death of a sweetheart, marriage to an older man, inability to have children) and that Lucy Moore's husband's personality in They Were Sisters is based on Henry Whipple (sarcastic wit), the Moore's marriage is also depicted as a childless but with good companionship.

I like They Were Sisters, I've not read Young Anne but have read most of DW's other books. I'm enjoying reading everyone's comments and I also like dmy re read of Someone at a Distance as it must be 15 + years since I first read it.

Yes, MotherofPearl. I think so. The modern man would have been on his knees asking for forgiveness.

I think this is part of why it might be thought slightly dated.

I think once he was found out Avery felt he had no choice but to divorce Ellen and marry Louise. I certainly got the impression that he would have regarded begging for Ellen's forgiveness as beneath his dignity as a man.

I like your ramble and agree with you on everything @SapatSea ! What is annoying is that Louise will take him to the cleaners and he will go back to Ellen and they will have to scrimp and scrape forever more, unless he is very well off, but I wouldn't say so.

Apologies for all my typos in above post
@FuzzyCaoraDhubh - you are right about Avery. A much more succinct post than my ramble!

@Howtohideasausage I have a few thoughts on Avery :

1. it may be part of Avery's pompus and arrogant beliefs, a sort of " code of honour" that in his mind having ruined/seduced Louise he felt he had to stick by her.

2)Perhaps he was so shocked at Anne seeing him and Louise on the sofa that he had to "prove" to her and himself that the affair was serious. He couldn't admit it had meant "nothing" as he would think that would diminish him in Anne and Ellen's eyes and lower his own opinion of himself. (he might feel he is not a man to act the "cad"). He couldn't be seen to wreck his marriage and Louise's adoration of him over "nothing." The affair had to mean something.

3. I think Avery and Ellen had entered the friend or brother and sister zone in their marriage. Avery didn't see Ellen as a sexual being anymore ( she dressed in men's pants to garden, wore little or no make up, no real interest in clothes like sophisticated, alluring Louise). Perhaps he wanted to blow up the smug family life he led for something more exciting but didn't appreciate what he was losing until it was gone and was only pining for Ellen and the kids again when he saw how they were able to manage and flourish without him or his money.

I agree that Louise would probably have been happy with a nice divorce settlement. Perhaps a second divorce would syink of failure ( and I think Avery mentioned something about how his family would cut him off).

The sensible thing to do would have been to admit his mistake straight away, wait and see if Louise had gotten pregnant and if not, pay her off, and stay married to Ellen who would have forgiven him. Avery is a fool and a dreadful self pitying weakling!

From what I remember, it was a matter of pride that he didn't go back to Ellen. He made his decision and that was that. He would have looked weak if he had changed his mind.

@Howtohideasausage I'm surprised you think she didn't love him, I didn't think that. She loved him in a steady, 20 years of marriage sort of way!

I really enjoyed At a Distance; but the part where Ellen realises what's happened, that her marriage is effectively over was baffling to me. Why was Avery so adamant that he had to divorce and then marry Louise? He didn't even like her really surely? It felt like Avery's true love was his daughter.

I think Louise would have been happy being divorced and getting a good settlement. She didn't love Avery at all.

I finished reading this last week, but it's still fresh in my mind. A sign of a good book :) I enjoyed reading everyone's comments too.

I’ve just finished and am really enjoying reading all your comments and insights.

A few rather disjointed thoughts:

I love the Garden of Eden image - and yes, it really does fit with Louise being the serpent. I also agree that I would have liked Louise to have been a little more nuanced rather than so obviously the baddie. True, she does have her broken heart as an excuse but you get the feeling that she was never really a nice person even before that. I also wondered whether Louise’s experiences during the War had shaped her character in any way but alas we will never know!

I too felt that there was a lot that would be unpicked psychologically on AIBU! Is she a narcissist? Why does Avery feel so obliged to marry her even though he seems to be immediately miserable in her company? Is it ever a good idea to refuse alimony?

The ending for me would have been stronger if Ellen had been a little less certain that she wanted Avery back in the future and that maybe she would end up preferring her own freedom in any case. But I guess that’s part of it being "dated". The plot would not work at all nowadays as I doubt there is anybody left who would feel morally obliged to marry someone they dislike so that their parents wouldn’t disown them!

I also think it seemed unrealistic that Avery and Ellen didn’t speak or see each other between his walking out and their chance meeting at the end but it worked dramatically. The Christmas lunch was a bit confusing too! They seemed to be hanging out all day before Ellen starting cooking "lunch" late in the afternoon. Not sure what that was about!

Those small niggles aside, I really enjoyed Whipple’s description of how Ellen’s whole identity as a wife, mother and homemaker was threatened by Avery’s actions and she gradually loses interest in all the household tasks she previously took pride in. One of my favourite moments:

"It went dark. Rain scratched at the windows. She added a boiled egg to the belated tea, to make one meal do for two. She had joined the great army of solitary women who have boiled eggs at night, the women without men".

I don’t think Whipple is saying this out of pity. She is just drawing attention to how much women’s lives revolve around facilitating the men they marry. Ellen married very young and we get hints that she would probably have had the chance of a better education if she had been born later (her interest and compassion for others, the books she borrows and loves). It is interesting that Louise has grown up surrounded by books and with loving parents but doesn’t seem to have any of the empathy for others that Ellen does.

Just finished it - I’m slightly conflicted by it but couldn’t put it down. On the one hand all the characters and the plot were slightly one dimensional - the happy, innocent, perfect wife; the wealthy, spoiled husband; the ghastly wicked Frenchwoman; the ultimate triumph of good over evil (sainted wife gets her errant and now truly appreciative husband back). But the writing is wonderful, and the characters somehow were credible and absorbing. I felt sorry for stupid Avery, wanted Ellen to post in AIBU about Louise not lifting a finger and getting some great confidence boosting advice to kick her out, and wanted to see Louise’s dresses. Loved it, can’t wait for the next one.

I was wondering about the title, and I think you’re right @SapatSea . The someone is Paul, who causes all the trauma and destruction, whilst being at a distance and having nothing to do with Ellen and her family.

Me too

I'm so enjoying reading everyone's reviews. Each one makes me appreciate the novel in a new way.

Finished last night. I found it very readable; Whipple’s style is very clear and her plotting is excellent. I thought she was very clever at sewing little seeds that then flowered later in the book, without seeming clunky. As others have mentioned above, Avery’s character flaws are subtly introduced, but I also appreciated the way the hotel and its circumstances made for a realistic job/home at the end.

I thought the characterisation was also excellent, particularly the minor characters such as Miss Beasley, Mrs North the elder (what a lot of MIL threads she could have spawned) and Louise’s parents. The only exception was Louise herself, who seemed a bit too ghastly to be real at times, but maybe I’m just naive.

I was surprised that - apart from problems with food and staff - the recent war impinged so little on the book. It did make me wonder if Amigny would have been quite so set in its ways. (What if André Petit were a resistance hero, and the Devoisys notorious collaborators?) And I found Louise’s constant contrasts between the English and the French very irritating, though to be fair it wasn’t clear that any of the other characters were quite so prejudiced.

I think PPs are quite right about the serpent/Garden of Eden analogy. And Louise doesn’t care for living things: you can tell from her attitude to the cat that she’s a wrong ‘un.

Hi Sapatsea, I hadn't really thought of the meaning of the title until I read your post. Certainly, Paul dominated Louise's thoughts and became an unhealthy obsession even after moving away from him. She couldn't shake herself free of him and he never knew the influence he had on so many people's lives. Louise was also someone at a distance who wasn't a threat initially, but who gradually wormed her way into the marriage and destroyed it.

The class structure and the social divide in French society was portrayed well, I thought. The concern of the Laniers to get Louise respectably married and for her to marry someone suitable within her class was everything. I enjoyed the reference that Louise made to Emma Bovary, comparing her lot to hers in becoming the wife of a dull man in the provinces, André Petit. Even his name suggests somebody mediocre. If it hadn't been for Mrs North's legacy, she might have married him.

SPOILERS
I agree Fuzzy, Louise will never be happy. However, I do think she is young and young people don't often think about or care about the consequences for others of their actions. She is also deeply hurt, angry and some what bored when she arrives back in England and Avery started giving her attention that she craved. I agree with others that Loiuse is a "snake in the garden of Eden"

However, I also think that Louise and Ellen are two opposites of woman hood. Madonna and Whore - Louise is the alluring temptress, the "bitch queen" leading poor, weak menz from the path of righteousness. Where as, Ellen is the epitomy of motherhood, giving service and succour to her husband and family and others (old women) with no thought for herself. The "Good Wife." Louise is a destroyer and Ellen someone who makes things bloom.
I have zero sympathy for the pampered manchild, Avery. He cared nothing for Ellen or his children's feelings when he pursued their young guest and had not appreciated how much Ellen had enabled his success and comfortable life.

I think it was an interesting twist to have Paul be the "someone at a distance" who appears at the start and whose actions in France, inadvertently cause all the drama in England. I also feel that Ellen looking across at Anne in the distance at the end of the book is also a "someone in the distance" who affects the trajectory of Ellen's life. Anne's feelings must be put foremost (quite rightly) and Ellen's wish to take Avery back put on hold. I think Ellen wanted to take back Avery as he had been so very much the centre of her life for so long and as her friend said "they were not the new sort of women."

I think Ellen should have taken Avery for every penny she could get rather than piously deny herself.

I like Dorothy Whipple books. She has great insight - They Were Sisters is one of my favourites. I think she was very unfairly traduced by Virago who wouldn't publish her, declaring that "we had a limit known as the Whipple line, below which we would not sink."

I enjoyed your review, Walkinginthesand.
By putting Anne's needs ahead of her own, Ellen has decided her own fate. There would have been a reconciliation at the end of the story between Ellen and Avery, but it would have upset Anne. And Louise, of course.

I have been thinking if I feel sorry for Louise and I think I really can't scrape up any sympathy other than feeling sorry for a person who goes through life with such venom in their heart, because they will never be happy.

I very much enjoyed this, the first book by Dorothy Whipple that I’ve read. The writing is excellent and carries the reader along effortlessly.

The characters are well rounded and psychologically believable and though they start out as stereotypes straight out of the 1950s – the contented, nurturing, happy homemaker; the loving, enthusiastic pony-loving teenage daughter; the confident, handsome, family centred, provider husband; the lonely, bored mother in law; the publisher with his head in the clouds. And then it is Louise, another stock character, who invades the middle class English home counties idyll and turns such stereotypes on their head.

For Louise is the outsider who creates trouble in the Garden of Eden. Had she been English the contrast with Ellen would not have been so great and the impact less but she is French, the other, an outsider, with “foreign” ways, more concerned with her physical image and appearance and material acquisition than creating, and being a part of, a secure warm family. Louise judged happy people as irritating and boring, and considered it “unintelligent to be happy.”

After Avery’s betrayal, in her anguish, Ellen allows her carefully tended garden to run wild and overgrown, reflecting her own and her family’s raging and uncontrolled emotions. The book’s uncertain ending reflects the overall uncertainty of life, whether this uncertainty is caused by external events or human frailty with far reaching consequences. The author has prepared us for this:

“You know, count no man happy until he’s dead and all that, Avery,’ she said, rising on her elbow. ‘And I really shouldn’t say it until they are grown up, but I do feel, as far as happiness is concerned, that we’ve made a success of our children.’”

It’s as if with those words she has set her family’s fate.

I just finished it. I really enjoyed it. I was completely gripped, particularly after the half way point when Avery and Louise were discovered.

I've just read through the comments and I really like the Garden of Eden reference. Louise is described as boneless as she sits with her knees drawn to her chest, sunbathing. Rather like the serpent!

I agree with all points mentioned so far. I think there will be a reunion for Ellen and Avery in the future as well. It's funny that John Bennett was musing that he didn't know Avery that well after all, while I was thinking the same. He was one dimensional. The token fool.

I'd not thought of the Garden of Eden but that's a brilliant observation. I think that the house and garden are very much set up as an idyll that Louise insidiously destroys. I thought all the gardening also worked to emphasise Ellen's wholesomeness, in contrast to Louise's artifice and worldliness.

I did wish Ellen would stop being so polite and tell Louise to shift her arse (I paraphrase) and help with the housework….but again, how many threads do we read on here where women tie themselves in knots because lazy houseguests don’t lift a finger, and they don’t know how to tackle it?

And Avery's lordly assumption that every meal would be beautifully cooked, served and cleared away, as if by magic - ie by his wife - was enraging. That Christmas dinner…….huh. Whipple certainly knew how to press buttons with a (largely female, I suspect) readership! There must have been lots of heads nodding in sympathetic agreement when it was first published.

I agree with the feeling of being a bit let down at the thought of her taking Avery back. I thought the part when it was falling apart between Avery and Louise was very well written and it made me so frustrated with him that he stubbornly pushed on when actually it was probably still repairable initially

Following! This one has been on my list for a while :)