War and Peace readalong thread 2022 - thread 3

I seem to be some criticism that Briggs gave the soldiers and 'working class accents' that weren't in the original. I'm mainly listening to an audio book so it's not so apparent to me.

Yes, the Briggs translation.

I have the Maude translation and I haven't noticed this.

Is it the Briggs translation Channel?

02/10/22
Volume 4, Part 1, Chapter 13

•	Pierre stays in this shed for four weeks with about twenty other prisoners. Later he would remember only Platon.

•	Platon is a round ball of a man, full of energy and positive vibes. He knows how to do almost everything – he cooks, sews, makes shoes, and so on.

•	He likes to talk a lot about himself and his life, mostly through peasant proverbs. He also likes to sing.

•	For Pierre, he will always be “the unfathomable, round, and eternal embodiment of the spirit of simplicity and truth” (4.1.13.10).

I’m finding the translation of peasants in the Penguin edition highly irritating: I don’t have a problem with using regional dialect to translate working-class speech, but I wish he’d stick with one. The dialect mash-up is getting on my nerves.

What are other translations like?

I found Platon really creepy... just overly familiar which I don't particularly love in real life, either (although am probably guilty of it slightly myself)...

Wonder what will happen to them both?

01/10/22
Volume 4, Part 1, Chapter 12

•	Pierre and the rest of the spared men are taken away to a prisoner-of-war barracks.

•	There, he realizes that after seeing “this horrible murder performed by people who did not want to do it,” he has lost faith in human beings, in God, in life, in everything (4.1.12.3).

•	He sits in the barracks for a long time without moving.

•	Eventually he realizes that he is watching a man nearby doing something. The man starts talking to him in a soothing voice, almost like a children’s nanny. He feeds a stray dog that comes to the door and then gives Pierre a baked potato.

•	Pierre has never eaten anything more delicious.

•	The little man introduces himself as Platon – which is the Russian name of the Greek philosopher Plato (but also a fairly common male name). Coincidence? Tolstoy doesn’t usually go in for the significant-name thing, so you be the judge.

•	The man speaks through a lot of proverbs and sayings, kind of rounding out all his peasant speech with folk wisdom. It’s all sort of deep, but Platon has the funny habit of not remembering anything that comes out of his mouth. He is entirely unable to repeat himself.

•	He tells Pierre that he became a soldier as punishment, but now sees that it’s better this way. He went instead of his brother, since his brother had two kids and Platon had none.

•	After Platon falls asleep, Pierre lies down and thinks about him. He feels a little bit of the faith again growing in his soul.

That was absolutely grim and harrowing to read. Brilliantly written. It's a painful reminder too of the atrocities that have occurred on Ukrainian soil since February.

Yes. I'm always surprised too when I realise that the Napoleonic army didn't only consist of French soldiers. I have no explanation for it, although your ideas sound plausible SanFran.

Horrible chapter, just awful! Pierre had a very lucky escape indeed but blooming heck, talk about life-changing! I hadn't read ahead (gold star for me) but desperately wanted to last night, to put this one behind me.

I find it fascinating that when they talk about Napoleonic soldiers, they're not just French - they're Spanish and German and from all over Europe. Was that because Napoleon conquered them so they just threw their lot in with him or was it because Russia was seen as such a big threat to Europe? Perhaps a combo of the two... they seem pretty dedicated to his cause as well which is surprising given he's not the 'leader' of their country! Although a lot of Russians were expressing their adoration for him in the early book so perhaps it was the appeal of being led by him as well?

30/09/22
Volume 4, Part 1, Chapter 11

•	OK, this chapter is disturbing, so Shmoop is recommending some stress-relieving activity right afterward. Or maybe even in the middle. Take a walk. Do a little yoga. Trust us, you’ll need it.

•	Here we go. All the Russian prisoners, including Pierre, are taken from the mansion into a field. There’s a post in the ground, and behind the post a big hole has been dug. (Get it? They’re going to be tied to the post, shot, then dumped in the hole.)

•	The prisoners are lined up. Pierre is number 6.

•	The soldiers decide to shoot them in pairs.

•	Men are led to the post like animals, not really understanding that their lives are about to end.

•	Soldiers shoot the prisoners, cut them down, then dump them into the pit. Each soldier is more horrified than the next at what’s happening.

•	This is clearly murder.

•	The soldiers are shaking and pale as they keep going. One of them can no longer stand, he is so overcome with emotion.

•	The fifth man is taken away and shot. Pierre doesn’t realize that this means that he has been spared and is just there to watch. He is catatonic with fear and horror.

😂too tempting!!

Bonus points for anyone who didn't read on a chapter!

What a cliffhanger! Brilliant ending there.

One of those days when I had to read on to the next chapter!

29/09/22
Volume 4, Part 1, Chapter 10

•	Finally, on September 8, Pierre and the rest of the prisoners are hustled off to see the 

•	On the way, Pierre sees the devastation of the totally destroyed, burned-down city. It’s horrible.

•	In a mansion where Pierre used to go to parties, he is now brought before...Davout, the French general.

•	He’s immediately totally terrified, because Davout is known as a vicious guy.

•	Pierre answers his questions, tells him who he is, and explains what he was doing near the fire. He also throws in the name of the French officer whose life he saved from Makar as some proof of his identity.

•	For a second, Pierre and Davout lock eyes and establish a deep human connection. There’s some hope for Pierre at this point, but suddenly a messenger comes in, and Davout stops thinking about him.

•	Davout doesn’t seem to make a decision. He calls for Pierre to be taken away and is immediately distracted by other business.

•	Pierre realizes that he’s been sentenced to death.

I hope so. Poor Pierre. It's looking grim for him.

I'm thinking maybe the fires will get worse and the prisoners will have to be released as there's nowhere to hold them.

Pierre has got to be saved... not sure what the penalty for arson is but pretty steep, I would think!

28/09/22
Volume 4, Part 1, Chapter 9

•	Back to Pierre, who’s being held under arrest. As the guards change shifts, he’s piled in with the rest of the prisoners, dregs of society who mock him because they immediately recognize him as an aristocrat.

•	He’s taken in for questioning, but it’s immediately clear that this is just for show. Every time he gives an answer that doesn’t fit into the story they want him to tell, they just ignore him and shut him up.

•	He refuses to tell them his name, but even so, they clearly will find him guilty of being an arsonist.

•	Pierre spends another four days under guard waiting for a decision from the marshal, whoever that might be.

Excellent rifling 😅

Let me consult my handy table of Kindred and Affinity....well, it looks like they can marry in England but I think that would be one plot twist too far!

Ooh it's all hotting up. Having no idea of what happens, my money is now on Marya and Nikolai. Maybe Sonya's vision of Andrey means she will end up with him? Leaving Natasha free for Pierre.... That would tie everything up nicely without the stressful familial ties. I like the "wacky 19th century people" comment!

Aha... that explains today's chapter! Poor Sonya - I don't think she realises that Nikolay is over the moon about the possibility of marriage to Marya and doesn't feel the same as her!

I wonder if he'll get in first? In fact, I'm sure he will... or at least engaged which I think would mean, for family honour (and coffers!) Nikolay and Marya would take precedence over Andrey & Natasha - although Andrey is also a great (and wealthy) prospect given he has his own, significant estate... and Natasha is sort of 'spoiled goods' after her attempt at elopement so not sure she has the social standing needed to land another rich gent, hmmm 🤔

27/09/22

Volume 4, Part 1, Chapter 8

•	Why on earth would Sonya write such a letter, you ask?

•	Well, her life with the Rostovs is hard. Remember, she’s dependent on them for practically everything and is a second-class citizen in the family. (She’s just a relative they’ve taken in.)

•	Most of her life, she’s been all too happy to self-sacrifice and generally be mistreated, because in her head this just made Nikolai love her all the more.

•	But now, suddenly, Countess Rostov keeps making snide comments about how she’s tied Nikolai down and how he can’t marry Marya like everyone wants, and generally making Sonya's life miserable.

•	For a while, Sonya plans to secretly tie Nikolai to her even more. (Maybe through a secret wedding? It’s not really clear what this means.) But now that Andrei is with the Rostovs, she’s got another plan going. She figures that Andrei will recover, and that he and Natasha will fall back in love and get married. If this happens, then Nikolai and Marya won’t be able to get married because it would be considered incest. (Wait, so first cousins getting married is no biggie, but people related only by marriage getting married, that’s incestuous? Oh, you wacky 19th century people.)

•	Meanwhile, the Rostovs are staying in a monastery. Andrei seems to be doing better, and Natasha is happy because of all the love. When Sonya peeks in one day, she sees Andrei sitting propped up on some pillows and it reminds her of what she pretended to see in the mirror fortune-telling game. Creepy.

•	Anyhow, because she has this theory about Natasha and Andrei getting married, Sonya is all too happy to finally oblige Countess Rostov’s pleading and writes the letter to Nikolai ending their engagement.