THE BOLEYN INHERITANCE

I think women had to be bloody careful, though. Certainly in late 18th/19th century some women were abandoned and forced apart from their children for adultery - Georgiana, Duchess of Devonshire springs to mind. Her son was permanently affected by the loss of his mother, even though she was allowed back (from the Continent, that useful place for sending ne'er do wells) after the baby was adopted by someone else. She was one of the leaders of society, with a wealthy and well-connected family - if it could happen to her...

I imagine if your child was fathered by the King, your husband had to put up with it, though.

re whose baby was whose - wasn't it something like the husband of the mistress 'welcomed' the baby - unless the king felt like acknowledging it - in which case he came across with cash and titles (mostly just the titles ) and the husband kept quiet!

i don't know how they worked out whose kid was whose in some cases.

the sun king, for example, had one mistress who bore him SEVEN children. but she was also the daughter of a duke and married to some marquis, with whom she also had children.

See, I thought that was cos they had a standard idea of beauty so a good portrait painter made sure you looked a la mode.

But surely there's plenty of fucking in the English courts, even by the wives, where so long as you'd provided an heir, you were then free to go off and take a lover. Or am I in the wrong century? Certainly that in the days of the Prince Regent.

And his grandfather was just as yucky, too.

His dad was definitely a major skank as well.

Twoifbysea, I studied Stuart history for A-level and have no wish to ever read about James VI and I again - the man was gross. According to contemporary accounts he was forever fiddling with himself and farting.

Some of these king's mistresses would have 6 or more children by the king, Peaches.

Often, the women were of noble birth themselves, as happened often enough here.

I have no idea how they got round this.

I mean, James V of Scotland had several, well-acknowledged male children born to noble women who were married to other men at the time. All you have to do is see their faces in a portrait and it's patently obvious that James fathered them.

Three fantastic books. Can't wait for a couple of years to go past so I have the excuse to read them again.

So did the French really do rampant fucking? Were babies out of wedlock not a problem for them?

i prefer the French.

all that rampant fucking that went on.

brill!

I would imagine if a book was written about Mary Queen of Scots, including all she went through, it would be considered unbelievable.

But it would make a cracking story.

And that of her son, who had a particular enjoyment of torturing "witches."

Now there is a mine of resources just waiting!

I hate to say this but if you look at it the Tudors were fairly boring, all that politics

Hell, where to start?

Let's see, Francois I, Henry's contemporary.

Anne grew up in his wife's court, after all .

But the man blew tons of money, particularly on new structures of all sorts - palaces.

tell us about the Kings of France, then, expat, I've never studied much French history. All I remember being taught up to the Napoleonic wars was a list of battles we won - I expect French children are given a different list of battles they won.

or perhaps a book about Henry VIII's maternal grandmother, Elizabeth Woodville.

Or even Woodville's own mother, Jacquetta, who created a huge scandal by marrying without the king's approval and, being an extremely wealthy widow, paying what was then a staggering fine for having done so.

Ditto Katherine of Valois.

The Wars of the Roses have a lot of material that could be covered equally well. The rumours about Perkin Warbeck, the Princes in the Tower, Duke of Clarence drowning.

I felt sorry for Anne of Cleves but she did quite well out it in the end. She had reasonable independence, her own house and an income. Ok, she wasn't allowed to re-marry on a trumped up excuse of a pre-betrothal but at least she kept her head.

and Cleves had even more to fear if/had she been sent back to her brother.

she played her cards well.

I did like Anne of Cleves portrayal in the book though. Very good expression of what life would have been like for a woman of those times. No more say over your future than a prize cow!

The Tudors have been done to death though, I'd love to read about another era.

Henry was positively tame compared to the kings of France!

I think people are fascinated by Henry and his excesses as much as anything. Or is it more a case of the Tudor dynasty being taught in schools in place of say, the War of the Roses a hundred years previously or the Civil War a century later, so Henry has just seeped into people's consciousness more?

they just had some, erm, challenges when it came to relationships.

something Mary, Queen of Scots, appeared to have inherited from her Tudor grandmother.

Well their behaviour (although probably perfectly acceptable in their circles in those days) is a little dysfunctional, let's say that. I imagine the Tudor children were throughly educated as would befit a prince and princesses. It's interesting to think that they would have probably been happier speaking or writing in French or Latin rather than English.

Yes but he sequestered people's properties because he didn't like them, not because they were women.

He was vile. And yet he's always had an inexplicably quite good press.

The biography I'm reading is by Eric Ives - I can highly recommend it!

I think it's a bit harsh to call the Tudors chavs. Whatever you say about them, they were actually extremely cultured, educated people, interested in the arts, politics, philosophy, theology, etc. They were respected for their learning and educated by the foremost scholars of the day. They make the present Royal Family look hopelessly philistine (not difficult though, I grant you.)

And he took plenty of peoples' rents from their properties, monies and heads if they crossed him.

Let's not forget the Countess of Salisbury's execution on Tower Green because he was outraged by her son.

Grim.

Henry VIII spent most of his money either fighting the Scots (whom Katherine of Aragon defeated for him the first time) or showing off to the French King. Nice work if you can get it.