Klara and the Sun by Kazuo Ishiguro

@Furtheron - I think the seeing people in boxes thing is a kind of computerised focusing thing - sort of when something isn't clear they just focus on a small part of it first (in a 'frame') and then build up a bigger picture from there?

@KineticSand You might enjoy Ian McEwan's book 'Machines Like Me' which I found a much better discussion of the issues of relationships between robots and humans!

I'm only about half way through so far, but finding it hard going... I don't understand what she means when she talks about her vision being fragmented; is she glitching?! When she talked about people being in boxes I was thinking celebrity squares-style to start with!
Now I'm imagining more one of those mirrors with differently angled panels. I just want to know if it's all going to make sense later?

I am resolutely averting my gaze from the previous post as Im about halfway through and not sure if Im going to continue or not.
I havent read any of his previous books - not even watched the film of Remains of the day so Im not influenced by these.
I think Im unsettled by this book. It progresses but doesnt seem to get very far. I ,like a PP, am not sure if Im missing things - references that have gone over my head. Is it a bit too clever for me maybe? I dont know.
Or is it too clever for its own good and there isnt really any substance to it. This is where I am I think.

SPOILER ALERT!

Just finished it this evening. There’s a lot that’s referred to peripherally but not explained in detail, such as the way the father and his ilk are living since losing their jobs, increasing polarisation of society with the genetically edited elite going off to college while the rest of the population sinks into dangerous tribalism, growing animosity towards AFs.

I think it isn’t perfect. I found the scene outside the theatre particularly irritating: everyone grabbing each other and saying something significant one after the other.

But it did resonate: more about how dangerous technological advances can be if they advantage some to the detriment of the majority, rather than the artificial intelligence theme. I’m thinking about Elon Musk putting rich people on Mars, for example.

And there was poignancy to Klara taking herself off to the utility room, and how casually she was discarded by Josie, and her acceptance of sitting on the hard ground in the junkyard.

That's a good point @HeddaGarbled

Also, there are suggestions the father is into some other weird stuff too, isn't he living in some kind of white militia community?

With both Rick and the Father, I attributed it to the desperation and grief of those who are about to be bereaved and the way they will latch onto any far-fetched promise of salvation.

@RoyalCorgi I think the Cootings machine might have been a generator, those noisy and dirty ones that are used for power at roadworks/ building sites. Or maybe a tarmac type machine for roads?

I can't figure out why Josie's dad agreed to vandalise the Cootings machine

That puzzled me too. It wasn't plausible. Also, I didn't understand what the Cootings machine was, either.

Clearly there was a lot that flew over my head!

This radio adaptation is over 2 weeks, so about 2.5 hrs

Haven’t read it but listened on book of the week. Disappointed, I’m afraid.

I thought it was utterly brilliant. I listened to the audible version which was excellent. Obvious parallels with religion with the sun being God, the barn being a kind of church and the steadfast belief in it with the praying etc.

I think the beggar ]man thing was a coincidence with the sun shining on him and Klara believing that it’s revived him where it probably just woke him up.

I have no idea about the cootings machine business.

The ending was sad. I thought Manager was going to take Klara home with her.

I thought it was intriguing and has made me think. 100% a modern classic.

I heard the radio 4 version was good too. The only drawback to their excellent adaptations is they abridge the book to make it fit into a weeks worth of radio. I listened to Margaret Atwood's sequel to Handmaid's tale at the same time as also reading it and I noticed how big chunks were trimmed out and mostly plot driven sections left. Same with Girl, Woman, Other.

@KineticSand you could try Becky Chambers Wayfarers series starting with A Long Way to a Small Angry Planet. Or going back a bit Frank Herbert’s Dune. But if you don’t like Ursula Le Guin it may just be that science fiction is not for you, as I would say her books are a prime example of ‘soft’ sci-fi, ie that’s character driven rather than tech driven.

Radio production is excellent, right now on R4 or BBC Sounds. I am amazed at how much the radio version engages me.

I read up on the plot & outcomes, etc., thinking I wouldn't listen any more to the radio play, but then I find I'm totally hooked listening to episodes whenever it's on. Highly recommended.

I'm not a literary person, tbf. From what you guys are saying, book may not be as good as radio version A very objective take on human values and what is right or wrong.

@pollyhemlock I'll give it a try. As a sci fi fan, are there any other books or writers that you recommend? I like Margaret Atwood and Brave New World. But I couldn't get through Ursula Le Guin. I think for me I like the sci fi that is more focussed on human relationships and feelings rather than actual fantasising about science.

@KineticSand I didn’t like The Buried Giant. Thought it didn’t work either as fantasy or as allegory, though I could see what he was trying to do. But lots of people love it so maybe you will. Never Let Me Go, on the other hand, is I think outstanding. But very sad.

Yes definitely @pollyhemlock I eagerly awaited it and read it immediately because of being a fan of Ishiguro already. I don't really read any other sci fi. Also I'm applying this level of analysis because of what I expect from him.

In a review I just read it said you could view this book along with Never Let Me Go and The Buried Giant as a trilogy, themes wise. Going to read The Buried Giant now.

The dad vandalising the machine feels like a bit of a plot/ character hole. Rick unquestioningly helping her get to the barn and back fits in with his character because it's a harmless expedition and he is kind and would want to do it to make her happy. That's interesting actually though. How nonbelievers indulge the irrational beliefs of others, which isn't always helpful.

@KineticSand I do agree with the thing about the Cootings machine. Why would he go along with something so clearly irrational? Klara’s sun worship is clearly quasi religious and it’s interesting to speculate on how an AI might develop a religious belief.Obviously because ithe book is by Ishiguro it has attracted a lot of interest and debate, and I do wonder whether a novel published as straight sci-fi with similar ideas would have been reviewed/ debated in the same way. ( I’m a huge fan of sci-fi).

I think Josie starting to get well on that particular day was probably a coincidence but Klara attributes it to her sacrifice and praying, this reinforcing her irrational beliefs. Just like religion.

Finished the book last night and come here looking for a thread! V keen to discuss.

I really enjoyed it and I'm now reading reviews (I always read reviews after I finish the book- why are reviews often full of massive spoilers??)

I can't figure out why Josie's dad agreed to vandalise the Cootings machine, unquestioningly, and was willing to maybe ruin his daughter's AF to do so? Maybe it was a suggestion that people too blindly follow what AI suggests and we don't question? But that doesn't fit with the rest of his character.

Re. Klara's magical beliefs in the sun. I thought that was supposed to be a comment on how human intelligence invents magical stories to believe in (religion) to make the world easier to understand and cope with.

Are we meant to think that some kind of miracle has occurred? Or is it just a coincidence?

I don't know. I'm glad I'm not the only person who was confused by it. I thought perhaps I was being particularly dim and that other people would have worked it out!

@RoyalCorgi Yes, that bit is confusing. Are we meant to think that some kind of miracle has occurred? Or is it just a coincidence? I know Ishiguro never explains everything, which is fine, but I did find Klara’s mixture of naivety and sophistication a bit unsatisfying.

Though given what a sophisticated creation she is how can she not know how the sun works?

This puzzled me. It felt like a major flaw in the entire premise. But then, without wanting to give the plot away, there is a bit in the book where the sun does in fact appear to work in the way Klara thinks it does. So that confused me even further!

Started and finished it today as was given it as a Mother's Day gift. I'm still mulling it over. I did find it a little flat but think that was intentional as the more computerised we become I guess the flatter we appear. It had been a while since I physically read a book and this was made apparent to me when I found myself trying to scroll the page instead of turning it. I thought it was a timely read in terms of our current circumstances and online studying instead of in person etc..

Finished this yesterday. After mulling it over I think it’s fairly underwhelming. The question at the heart of it is whether an AI creation can have a ‘soul’. This is an area which has been extensively covered in science fiction books and films. It’s basically the whole premise of Blade Runner. I’m not sure that Ishiguro adds much in this book, though it’s readable, and Klara’s perspective is interesting. Though given what a sophisticated creation she is how can she not know how the sun works?