The God Delusion

I am tempted to quote GK Chesterton: 'When men stop believing in God they don?t believe in nothing; they believe in anything.'

Although I'd differ from GK in that I don't necessarily think these "anythings" (crystal healing etc) have any less evidence than God. I lump them all in together.

As Richard Dawkins says: "We're all atheists with regard to Thor, and Zeus."

Yes--we need something. It'll probably be pick-n-mix tarot cards and crystals.

"history tends to show that the vacuum left when religion is ousted is filled with religion of a different kind"

Oh, I agree - people will always find something to believe because that's how people are.

Well history tends to show that the vacuum left when religion is ousted is filled with religion of a different kind. And often the outcome isn't a happy one. Perhaps, however, we will evolve into societies that can live with the vacuum and not need to fill it with anything. But atheists themselves seem to have some reservations. You have probably read Thomas Hardy's poem about God's funeral?. And the Oxen...

I do agree that believers aren't exempt from evil. I was disciplined at school by people who thought it was acceptable to beat small children in God's name. On a much more serious level we've got those terrorists in court at the moment.

Well, there are good and evil people who believe in God(s), and good and evil people who don't. There doesn't seem to be any identifiable correlation between the two.

There's no evidence that doing away with religion means it is replaced by a "strident form of materialism which places no value on human life". I find that assertion most odd. I, for one, value this life far more than I would if I believed I was going to have some kind of eternal life afterwards.

I'd like to read these books. The bit about religion being the cause of most wars always makes me raise an eyebrow as I tot up the millions and millions of deaths caused by Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, the Rwandan tribal conflict, etc, none of which had anything to do with religion. That's what scares me: if you do away with religion it tends to get replaced with a strident form of materialism which places no value on human life at all. Not saying for one moment that that's the case with the (generally) tolerant and thoughtful atheists I know, but it is a more general concern.

I got this book as a Xmas present and found it enjoyable, well written and great at clarifying some of the ideas which have been bubbling around in my noggin for yrs, love most things re evolutionary psychology so perhaps I was biased from outset. Definitely makes the subject accessable for the lower to middle brows of us out there without seeming patronising. Whether you read it just for the debate or not its a great read

Of course there's also Hell (I went there on holiday last year, it's a peninsular opposite Gdansk) and Limbo if you like dancing under a pole.

I like my grey and lumpy cloud, thanks

"Si Dieu n'existait pas, il faudrait l'inventer"

Anyway, you godless lot (especially YOU uqd) it will serve you all right if your cloud is grey and lumpy and your harp is out of tune.

Sounds like one of his bons mots. A tricky tense to translate though.

Voltaire?

Who said "if God didn't exist it would have been necessary for us to invent him>"?

Actually you can see the whole thing at the UHI site

You need Flash 9.

Thought I'd revive an old thread for the benefit of those interested in Dawkins who would like to see his interview/audience Q&A at the UHI.
this links to the first part proper as part 1 is just a preamble by a hosting academic.

I don't think all 12 parts are up there yet, but it says on his website that they are in the process of being done.

i have now read the first chapter, and although that doesn't qualify me as an expert on RD the following things have occured to me:

to class Spinoza as a Pantheist is to take a simplistic approach to his work. he was talking about god as a kind of collective consciousness, so whether that qualifies as 'supernatural' religion or not is still open to debate.

dawkins seems a hopeless romantic to me, not something i would necessarily associate with atheism. i'm very intereseted to read the rest of the book. i shall have to borrow it from my dad.

I'm reading Conversations with God as a prelude to The God Delusion. From time to time I want to say "Rubbish", particularly when God distorts the English language with constructs like "re-member", nowhere/now here.

Message withdrawn

It's a good book, not a great book. Whilst I'm very sympathetic to his views and am certainly an atheist, the problem is not so much that it is incredibly polemic, but that it's polemic to the extent of being either deliberately misleading or just plain wrong on certain points.

Where he's good, he's really very good, particularly (obviously) on genetics and biology. On the pyschology and social anthropology he's, self confessedly, good but doesn't explain everything (his explanation of 'meme' theory is frankly woeful). On theological history he's accurate but very selective in his choices of data to say the least (his description of the Council of Nicea is, shall we say, slightly partisan). On certain other area, for example, the impact of religion on international conflicts, he's laughably bad - his claim, amongst others, that religion is responsible for almost all the major international and civil wars in the 20th century is just so wrong (and such a foot stamping petulant teenage analysis) it's untrue.

Don't get me wrong, I like his view, his style of writing is attractive and he makes his case in a very compelling way, but just don't take it all at face value.

Message withdrawn

I have been meaning to get The God Delusion for ages; I just finished The Blind Watchmaker. So prompted by this thread I have just ordered it and Conversations with God (book 1) (and The Sportswriter, Richard Ford).

Umm, that "thanks" was not meant to be sarcastic!

barnstaple - I'm genuinely interested as to what your dad would recommend as a alternative. Am tempted by this book as part of a 'rounded' approach to exploring my own spirituality but you have made me think twice. Thanks.

If you are open minded and not merely wanting to have your notion (hope?) confirmed that God doesn't exist, then read Conversations with God (book 1) by Neale Donald Walsh, after this book.

It's not even about "religion" as you possibly percieve it.

Then make up your mind.