Wuthering Heights - Just read for the first time. ANyone care to discuss

Hell, even Stevenson's Alan Brek I find WAY more romantic than Heathcliff, in a dashing, swashbuckling sort of way.

PMSL, Caligula!

Hardy has his moments, and 'Return of the Native' is definitely one of them!

Oh, right, rabble, so that's why I'm such a huge fan of Jane Eyre, Colette, Proust, Voltaire, Candide, Hawthorne, Hugo, etc.?

Yes, I think Heathcliff was a twat and Catherine was a stuck up cow, especially when you consider the characters Emily Bronte's own sister Jane, a product of not only the same generation but also the same family, created. The contrast becomes even more striking.

Heathcliff and Catherine seem very weak and flimsy to me.

Guess I wasn't alone in my sentiments, 'Wuthering Heights' suffered horrible literary reviews and did poorly at the time of its publication.

Heathcliff ran off after he overheard Catherine poncing off.

Mr. Rochester stepped up to the plate. Jane Eyre's mum ran off with her true love. Captain Brandon proved that a patient man wins in the end.

Need any more examples?

I love Hardy

Don't think he's depressing at all.

But that John Steinbeck - oh give me strength

I can't stand the Brontes

The only readable one is Anne, Emily's a nutter and Charlotte's just turgid drivel

I hate the whole myth as well. All these mad middle-aged women with nine cats going to visit Haworth worshipping these unhealthy, unattractive characters.

No wonder Branwell was a drunk

There. That's my lit crit for the day.

expat she couldn't marry h because he disappeared & didn't return for many years. feeling abandoned, instead of holding true to her natural passion, she turned insted to the safe option of marriage to a different man, one that she cared for, but wasn't a part of her like h is

grapes of wrath is utterly devoid of hope or joy. does that interest you? style is v different to hardy - modern american writer rather than traditional british one, so if you like hardy's style you may not enjoy. but if you want something to bleed all life and fun from your soul, to leave you witha haunting image which never completely leaves you, to feel that humanity is too cruel and careless to justify living, then yep, it's great!

Expat, you have a habit, if I may say so, of applying modern sensitivities to older problems. If you genuinely believe that your generation is better than all those who have gone before you and that Emily Bronte, Heathcliffe, Cathy, et al, are all twats, then that's fine.

Just hope your grandchildren don't dismiss you so lightly.

Although I found Jude sooo depressing - because we are to meny...etc. I did go and read most of his other works after and I do remember being impressed with The Mayor of Casterbridge - I do love a good depressing read.
I've often mean to read Grapes of Wrath - you'd recommend??

Ah, now you're talking ... Hardy hits the spot every time.

I love Hardy, his poetry as well. I know his books are full of gloom, but hey life is too (am cheery sod I know).

I did get a bit fed up with Cathy and her fainting fit in WH - I mean she just sort of died of a cold and hysteria as far as I could see - but thats all Victorian stuff as well innit - women and madness etc.

I think I read too many Victorian novels because the child abuse/wife beating stuff just doesn't occur to me, except as being a natural part of the story

I loved WH when I read it as a child and have re-read it many times. I still love it but I do tend to huff at the child abuse and the general un-PCness of Heathcliff. But that is his appeal isn't it - brooding, passionate etc etc. Wonderful in a book, probably dreadful in reality. I prefer CB though - Villette and Shirley are my favourites I think.

Oh and I agree with Bectheneck - far from the madding crowd is just faaaabulous. 'whenever you look up, I shall be there...'.
And as for the film with Alan Bates as the farmer and that sad sad scene of sargeant troy on the grave of his wife and child in the rain, in fact I think I will have to see if I can get the video.
Sorry if hiking a thread..
Another good read of mine is the grapes of wrath by John Steinbeck, quite heavy but very well written, truly believable characters.

I had to read it at school donkeys years ago. Convent school so of course no comments were allowed about heathcliffe being sexy . I remember putting in my essay about it that the housekeeper telling the story seemed very nosey, and now that I am older and understand such terms, I would say that all the characters seem a little TOO inter-related by the end of the story!
I found it very heavy... nice scenery around where it is set though, my sis used to live there and we'd go for some lovely wild windswept walks.
I feel a song coming on, Kate Bush anyone??

Catherine could have pulled a Mary Reid and married the lowborn man, anyhow, even if it meant being disinherited, as Jane Eyre's mother was.

She didn't have to play the stuck up moo.

But she did.

And he reacted by being an abusive bully.

me too MrsJC - JE is so romantic. I don;t care if its badly written crap {WWB ) it just makes me want to be Jane

I just love Mr Rochester. Too sexy - reread Jane Eyre a couple of months ago, had forgotten just how much I love it.

think it is true that the treatment of children WAS appalling back then so what's in WH wasn't so shocking back then. People really did think that children were little devils and inherently evil. Awful

but h is like that because the others are all so horrible to him. society pretends to rescue him from death, then rejects & belitlles hime. he is their nemesis. until they pay for their smug mc crimes, he will continue. once the balance is corrected, he disappears & the new generation can re-enact the happy life that he & Catherine would have had, if other people hadn't been so mean.
it's their fault & they deserveit. comeon, is there really no-body here who's been sneared at & wanted to wipe that smug grin off their face?

Heathcliff's got nothing on Mr Rochester.

Now that is passion, folks!

I love that line, 'Mr. Rochester was about forty, and this governess not yet twenty, and when gentlemen of his age fall in love with girls, they are like as if bewitched.'

I'm shockingly badly read especially considering I did English as part of my degree

I only read WH for the first time about a year ago and I have to agree with expat. H was a bullying, moody, abusive arse. No redeeming features as far as I could see. I felt cheated and put the blame fully onto Kate Bush! I'm re-reading it at the moment but still having difficulty remembering who all the characters are. I need a cast list! I suppose I was expecting the usual dark, brooding, bastard-but-you-can't-help-loving-him type of hero so I shall try and read it with a more open mind this time.

FWIW, I looove Far From The Madding Crowd and can complete understand why Bathsheba wet her knickers over Sgt Troy (waggling his big sword about and piercing the caterpillar? on her bust ) - who is a complete bastard but gets away with it.

I liked the passion in WH - I love that ' I love this woman and damn the bloody rest of it' - I liked the spiritual and the gothic and all the rest. BUT I did like Jane Eyre far far better - I liked the social comments and issues it brings in.....

I'm a Thomas Hardy fan meself, prefer anything of his over the Brontes tbh.

I thought it was a shite book with shite protaganists.

If you don't care for the central characters, how are you, the reader, supposed to be engaged enough to find it a good book?

I'm reading 'Eat, Pray, Love' just now. It's excellent!

but you don;t have to like protagonsists for it to be a good book. some of my favourite bokos are about twats. Tom Wolfe? Martin Amis?

I was forced to read this pile of drivel as a teen, and later as a young adult.

Failed to see what was remotely engaging about either Heathcliff the wife beater or Catherine the stuck up bitch.

Wish they'd both drowned in a bog in the first few pages and spared us all.

Jane Eyre far better. Especially when she ditches his ass after she finds out he's still married.