Page 3 | steve biddulph - misogynist bully?

workstostaysane · 2007-03-03T21:05:48+00:00

half way through 'raising babies' he seems to be a big fat bully to me. anyone else??

ipanemagirl · 05/03/2007 13:07

my ds (6) was at a soft play place yesterday and I noticed he ran to where I was sitting about 10 times (or more) over 2 hours and just snuggled into me for a moment and was off again. I think that's a microcosm of what they need over time. Someone to reassure them as often as they need it as they go off and explore, learn, play, study. I don't think it matters who does that as long as they really care about that child and can show it. Not enough to care and be unable to show it! Hugs cuddles positive encouragement - you need to be a loving person to do that not a rocket scientist or a biological parent!

nearlythree · 05/03/2007 13:01

My mum deliberately chose an old woman to look after me so she wouldn't get jealous.

Original poster

workstostaysane · 05/03/2007 13:00

i agree ipanemagirl - those are the women who seem the least anxious, unhappy or resentful. have to go visit a sick grandma now. back later

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ipanemagirl · 05/03/2007 12:43

I've always felt, instinctively, that we're probably as a species supposed to raise children in large extended family groups, once women, now whoever. As long as there's security children seem to thrive. I actually think being with your children full time isn't necessarily best for all mothers or all children given our society.
tbh the happiest mothers I've met seem to have been, almost without exception in one or both of the following categories
1] Mothers who work 2 or 3 days a week with whatever childcare
2] Mothers who work part-time or full time with family childcare

Original poster

workstostaysane · 05/03/2007 12:35

'they always seek to homogenise human experience' i guess thats my complaint really. and SB is no different from any other nob who writes in generalised terms about how you should bring up your child.
however, he does always (in Raising babies anyway) talk about the mother as the primary care giver and predicts some really horrible outcomes if she should entertain the idea of childcare

'All I'm saying is that this is his theory that he has chosen to research and write on.'
what i'm saying is that, in spite of the evidence of all studies that if you are attached to your child, childcare will do them no harm, SB has chosen to write about the harm that COULD happen IF you are not sufficiently attached. its like the media portraying all of south london as riddled with gun toting teenagers, when the fact is, you are highly unlikely to get shot if you visit mcdonalds in brixton a couple of times a week.

finally,
have just returned from playgroup where i sat with 3 young women from eastern europe, each with sole charge of one or 2 children. they were loving, caring and attached to these kids. the kids ran to them when they were upset and when they wanted to show them something new. all 3 worked part time (so the mums were obviously at home doing their bit for most of the week). SB could tell a nice little anecdote about this kind of childcare. instead he wails, 'the better a nanny is for your children, the more she will replace you. Is this what you really want?' he really really does not want women to feel good about having help. OF COURSE you want the best nanny for your kids. is he mad? and are women such fragile creatures that they will crumble at the thought that a child could form a strong attachment to anyone other than themselves. oh dear, i'm convincing myself again that he really does dislike and mistrust women

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nearlythree · 05/03/2007 11:12

Isn't it Biddulph who says he gave his in-laws (or maybe his own parents?) a rocket for saying he was 'baby-sitting' when looking after his own kids?

ipanemagirl · 05/03/2007 10:57

But has Biddulph ever done a period of extended childcare on his own - really?
I mean I think loads of his theories are great. But there's nothing like the the knowledge of someone who's really been there in those endless hours of mindnumbing mental challenge that is full-time childcare (whether that's a week-end or a week)

Marina · 05/03/2007 10:43

I agree with nearlythree - pick the bits that work for you and your family.
I've never found Steve Biddulph all that helpful to be honest - but then ds is not a particularly typical boy and a lot of the issues Biddulph aims to help tackle just don't arise for us.
I would like to point out that in lots of areas of the UK, though, good childminders are not easily available. So "choosing" daycare is not actually a real choice at all. The only decent one in my area 1) only moved here when dd was 2 2) doesn't do pick-ups from her nursery school 3) has a year long waiting list despite many others having vacancies.
She is lovely. The ones I contacted when pregnant with dd, weren't, frankly.

nearlythree · 05/03/2007 10:33

I agree with whoever said you just pick and choose the bits that work for you. I loathe the 'naughty step' and time-out but think that both Supernanny and Tanya Byron have other things to say worth listening to. I love Penelope Leach but find her too vague on sleep issues, and too involved for dh to get into. Elizabeth Pantley is good but you have to get used to her very American style. The Sears are okay to dip into but a bit fanatical. And so on...

ipanemagirl · 05/03/2007 10:22

I usually like his approach about boys.

I sort of know what you mean about some parenting gurus.... they sometimes leave you feeling talked down to. Maybe that's inevitable.
Also they always seek to homogenise human experience, wheras we're just left with living in the exceptions to rules.

However rules do help me however general.

nearlythree · 05/03/2007 10:21

Agree, hippmummy. I think he is genuine. Perhaps one reason IL like him is b/c my own mother headed off to the office when I was a small baby. Fact is, there were times when I needed her and she wasn't there, right through my childhood and into my teens. My other main people (my nan and dad) were around a lot, but I wanted my mum and she wasn't. Perhaps that's why I relate to his message.

hippmummy · 05/03/2007 10:18

Ok, WTSS, maybe he does conclude that if you send your child to nursery before 3 you are not doing the best for your child. I accept that. I don't even know enough about the subject to say how far I agree with him or not.

All I'm saying is that this is his theory that he has chosen to research and write on.
I just don't believe that having that opinion and writing about it makes him smug patronising or a bully.

Look at it this way - I stopped breastfeeding my babies at around 6 months. All the research and literature around tells you it's best for your baby if you continue until they are at least one or preferably two. I did what was best for me and my children.
I didn't then assume the research is accusing me of being a 'crap parent', is patronising or is bullying me because I went against it.
Do whats best for you and your kids and don't take it personally.

BTW - in SB's 'Raising Boys' book he writes a whole section on teaching boys to respect women. He talks a lot about the important of boys to be able to show feelings and mothers are important role-models in building boys' self esteem.
For me, this kind of approach to parenting just doesn't sit with your description of a smug patronising bully.

piglit · 05/03/2007 09:34

I have a lot of time for him personally. I have 2 very young dses and I like what he says.

It makes a change to find a childcare "guru" who actually says something I like and agree with. At least he has kids.

Original poster

workstostaysane · 05/03/2007 09:21

'But I think any parent who feels they are being told they aren't doing the right thing, on any issue, may feel they are being patronised.' if you state as SB (and every single study) does, that childcare will not harm the child unless the attachment is weak in the first place, then you write a whole book saying that all childcare is bad, you MUST assume that the attachment is weak. this is a no brainer....???!!! if you think all childcare is bad, you must assume the primary care giver is not doing a good job.
i really don't understand how you can deny that this is SBs assumption in writing this book.

'I'd say that the existence of nervous women unsure of their choices is simply an unfortunate fact rather than bullying. He uses anecdotal and research evidence to support his argument NOT to to make women feel bad' every anecdote in 'raising babies' is a horrifying account of any type of childcare. to propagate the fanstasy that all childcare is disatrous is bullying to make your point and untrue.

LOL TP. off to get a better haircut.

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twentypence · 05/03/2007 03:06

His tips on bullying (my synosis)- "love them and build their ego and they will be okay"

My tip - If you had cut your hair into a slightly more fashionable style you wouldn't have been bullied in the first place.

No view on whether he is a bully.

hunkermunker · 05/03/2007 00:13

Um, he's not litigious, is he?

CristinaTheAstonishing · 05/03/2007 00:11

Nick Cave and Supernanny

harpsichordcarrier · 05/03/2007 00:08

oh Mars, the voice of blardy reason

CristinaTheAstonishing · 05/03/2007 00:05

Re Nick Cave: it was an interview in The Times last week (or the week before). I understand he mentioned it in passing and asked the interviewer not to make a big deal of it. He's got twin boys, who knows, maybe he should give his fellow-countryman a try. My Dh was disappointed too, although he didn't know who Supernanny was until then.

Marscentio · 05/03/2007 00:02

I like him.

I think, as with all of them, you take the bits that work for you. I don't take any of them as a personal slight on my parenting skills but I do like reading other ways of doing things... particularly if it improves the way I am with my children and them with me.

Folks and strokes... just like with SWMNBN. Some like, some don't!

Caligula · 04/03/2007 23:59

God I think it's time to go to bed.

Nick Cave... Supernanny...

harpsichordcarrier · 04/03/2007 23:57

Nick Cave likes Supernanny
that is the most surreal thing I ever heard

CristinaTheAstonishing · 04/03/2007 23:56

I was reading in The Times that Nick Cave (one of my favourite singers, my username is after one of his songs) likes Supernanny. I was very disappointed.

Caligula · 04/03/2007 23:40

LOL at blanditudes

Spidermama · 04/03/2007 23:38

Lord Steve of the Biddulf. You're having a larf.