steve biddulph - misogynist bully?

Recycle as in "Secrets of ..." and then "More secrets of ..."?

Cristina, I see what you mean. actually, as far as my country is concerned, probably nurseries (both those for underthrees and for 3 to 6) are the only bit that's working well in the care and school system...

i kind of have delayed it Christina but more because i'm dreading going back into hospital after the last terrible experience [tho something lovely came out of it of course]having another baby when/if we do will definitely be a challenge to ds's sense of ownership of me but i think in a good way. He will have another family member who hopefully he will form a loving attachment to for life. I think small groups are fine - my beef is with big commercial nurseries where the quality varies, and in the case of the nursery we walk past every day, the primary carers are bored 17 year old girls. I agree with Franca that the quality of nurseries needs to be improved in the UK.

Christina my dh is from Macedonia. He went to nursery from 6 months old full time. He doesn't feel he was adversely affected by this. His nieces both go to nursery. They are happy little girls. I just don't think one size fits all. I had a lot of problems with ds when he was very small - he was a very, very angry little baby who didn't sleep at all - and we both had a nasty experience in the hospital. i went with my gut in the decisions i have made for him and me - and i feel for us it is the right decision.

I think at least parents are aware of bullying these days and take it seriously - working or not it's something we all keep an eye out for.

Franca, I don't have a word for it so I don't see why you should!

sorry if i chose the wrong word (english not my first language ), nearlythree.

Nearlythree - I get what you mean now about missing things, I thought you referred to baby milestones. I don't know how things will turn out when DS is older or a teenager. We'll work it out together (with DH too).

No, not at all, I don't feel that she neglected me. Neglect would imply a lack of love, and there wasn't that. In fact I suspect she'd be devastated if she knew what I am saying here. But there were times when she couldn't be there for me and I got used to that. That's not to say I think she shouldn't have worked, she has a gift in her field and has acheived so much. She'd probably have been very unhappy as a SAHM. But I am determined that my dcs won't have to manage to deal with emotional problems on their own, if I can help it, and I am sure that if I had to work there would be times when I couldn't be there for them - it's inevitable. At least by being a SAHM (for as long as funds allow) I can try to avoid that happening, a bit. Interestingly my mum worked longer and longer when I was a teen but I needed her probably more than when I was younger.

Franca - I'm from Romania. Plenty of bad parenting examples, I know, but not on the whole an overly screwed-up nation or not because of nurseries. There's plenty more to take your pick from. Put that in your pipe and smoke it, SB.

Ruty - would you purposefully delay having another child (if you'd planned to) until your first reaches 3 because of this one-to-one care? It's a genuine question.

cristina, where are you from? I'm really curious now

I'd find it terrifying and a huge failure to imagine that I'd be so detached from my child that I wouldn't pick up on bullying. I know it happens, my DH is fuelling these fears (I come from a culture in which bullying wasn't such a rite-of-passage as it seems to be here) and, yes, I do worry. But it wouldn't be because he went to nursery or I went to work. I think that's all I can say so far. He's been happy so far and we have a good relationship so far. I don't know what the future holds but it would be idiotic to think it's because of his past so far when there are no signs of it. I mean i'm sure there's some school of thought somewhere that can track future behaviour back to what happenned in the womb or some such but i'll ignore that.

Regarding being there for everything. Of course I want to be part of his life but I don't own him and I don't police him. I am glad to have been there for his first smile, first steps etc but who's to say he didn't try those first steps when my back was turned or he didn't first smile at someone else? I am glad to have ticked those boxes and others but I didn't obsess as much about them with my DD for example.

nearlythree, I'm really sorry you felt neglected (is this the right word?) by your mum.
My mum worked until I was seven, when I was a teenager I so wished she went to work and stopped being on my case the whole time! .

agree unquiet dad. But that is the problem - some children do well, some don't. If there is a way of wangling it so a child has one to one care up to the age of three, i feel it is best to try. For myself anyway.

my dh made the mistake when introducing 2.5 year old ds to boxer shorts of first putting them on his head. Now of course, where do you think ds insists on putting them? Definitely not under his trousers.

I didn't say he shouldn't mention it. But personal experiences are exactly that - some children do really well in nurseries, others don't. Unfortunately it isn't within every parent's power to decide which their child is going to be and act accordingly.

franca, my dad would need a problem to go marching past him with a brass band attached and even then I'm not sure he'd notice! And he was around a lot more than my mum!

You said that your ds' future well-being won't be affected by your working. It could be, b/c my emotional well-being was affected by my mother working so I know from experience. It is possible to be too busy and too tired that you don't pick up on a child's unhappiness. My mum and I love each other dearly but I reached the stage where I dealt with things on my own b/c I had to. If you can really and honestly guarantee that you will never, ever miss something in your ds' life then that is amazing. Of course, as a mother of three it's equally possible that I will be too busy and miss something even though I am at home.

Ok, before i bow out of this thread, because I really believe that nursery's standards should be raised in this country and that this matter should be greatly relevant for all the families, regardless of their choices to work full/part time, work at home, stay at home, whatever, I would like to say that it's oversimplistic to suggest that by working you could miss out on anything terrible, or wonderful that can happen to your children. my dad has always worked from 8am to 8pm, and I swear, he could pick up on any kind of problems we might have. now that's me making generalizations...

at the pants. We are good at variations on this topics as DS went through a phase of liking Captain Underpants.

Fair enough Christina.

Actually, I feel quite detached about the subject, Ruty. DS is now 7 and he is happy and healthy.

quite happy to wear pants on my head though.

i don't think i generalized Christina but i can't persuade you otherwise. I think you are taking all this a bit personally. I was just expressing my personal belief and experience. Didn't know that was irrelevant on this thread.