50 Book Challenge 2017 Part Two

I've just finished an old 're-read' cosy murder mystery,

4. Sparkling Cyanide - Agatha Christie - one of the 'stand alone' books rather than a returning character one. These can be a bit hit and miss, but this is a good plot one. A glamorous woman dies of poisioning in a posh resturant, this is put down to suicide, her husband is not convinced but her sister (who inherits the fortune) has found evidence of the dead woman had been having an affair, and the OM had dumped her. Nice easy, cosy read.

Agree about the 'unlikeable characters' - if the book is all about what happens to someone and how they feel about it, then I have to care what happens to them and wonder how they'll feel about it. If I genuinely don't give a shit, it's very hard in a non-action focussed book to stick with it.

I agree with Passmethecrisps when it comes to male characters - I want them just a tad older and knackered. This is why I like Wallander and Inspector Morse and why I despise books where the male characters fall into bed with loads of women suspiciously easily as in All That Man Is by David Szalay - despite the excellent writing.

It depends where the story is. If the story is in the characters they have to be of interest in some way.

For e.g Hamlet - I don't care about the characters in the sense that it doesn't bother me they all end up dead in the finish (sorry spoiler), but I care about their thoughts and motivations because that's where the story is and it is interesting. Hamlet is interesting even when he's sitting around unsure what to do with himself. I don't especially like him but he is compelling.

For further e.g The middle section of the Goldfinch was one of the least interesting things I've ever read because next to nothing was going on story wise, it was completely reliant on your interest in those two characters and how they interacted with each other and their surroundings and they were boring and I just didn't care.

cote The characters is On The Beach pissed you off enough that you ceased to be interested in a story with stakes as high as the end of the world

Interesting discussion about unlikeable characters! Agree that to an extent it depends on the genre - someone up thread said it's more important with chicklit to like the heroine and I agree with this. I read quite a lot of psychological thrillers and it's less important there to like the characters - but you do need to understand them. An example I read recently is Lie With Me by Sabine Durrant - the narrator is not a nice person at all but the story telling is so good you still want to know what happens to him and others in the end.

Re: 'unlikeable characters'. I don't want a character to be my BFF. Life would be pretty boring if you only ever read about one type of character. But characters do have to appeal in some way. Whether they are complex and intriguing, genuine, fantastically evil etc - too many ways to mention; therefore has to be something that makes me want to carrying on being invested and interested in their story.

Every I love it when someone other than me, for a change gets the rage about a book.

Not sure I understand what "to care what happens to them" means, either. Surely you get into a story or not? If the story is well-crafted and interests you, does it matter whether the character you 'like' the characters or can identify with them in some way?

I struggle with "unlikeable" characters Cote not because I need to be BFF but I need to give a fuck what happens to them.

It largely depends:

There But For The - didn't give a monkeys, but also found it poorly written. LOATHEd.

Sons And Lovers HATED Paul, LOVED the book, beautifully written

I for one with Goldfinch - the way it was broken into sections... they felt like 4 different books stylistically, that weren't connected and that end section about LESSONS LEARNED - can just fuck the fuck off.

Agreed, I just take it to mean when someone doesn't 'like' a character they mean they don't care about them or what happens to them. Some characters are not nice people but have a charisma or fascination to them that draws you in, something you like about them. And some are just dickheads

"characters need to feel believable in a character-driven story just the same way as a dystopian scenario needs to feel plausible in a SF story, surely?"

Of course. That is not the same thing as "characters aren't likeable", though.

Having said that, I have lived long enough to see that everyone can do anything so not much that literary characters do appears "unrealistic". Except when apocalypse happens and characters are going about living their lives, talking about fishing season and who will marry whom, as certain death approaches for everyone. (I'm looking at you, the morons in On The Beach)

I don't mind my principle characters being arses but I do what to have some motivation behind their behaviour. Having someone portrayed as some sort of Bond style criminal with nothing to explain their behaviour makes it hard for me to relate.

Similarly I don't want character who are so pearly white that I also can't engage. I like police procedurals and have read my fair share of thrillers but I discovered after a few Patricia Cornwell for example that I want my lead to be A bit flawed. I like a tortured soul. Preferably without jutting cheekbones, a lithe body and piercing blue eyes.

Give my a slightly puffy, crumpled old geezer with burst capillaries on his nose any day.

And I want no presumptions about why I relate to the latter either! My cheekbones are bang on

Can you all just stop it!!! You're making me want to read The Goldfinch again and I have 963 on my TBR pile!

Agree with the distinction sadik makes - characters need to feel believable in a character-driven story just the same way as a dystopian scenario needs to feel plausible in a SF story, surely? In either case it's not that you "care" as in give everyone a hug, send a donation, but that you care enough to want to finish the story.

For example I cared enough about the boy at the beginning of the Goldfinch with his mother in the museum to see it through to the end, despite some very frustrating stuff in the middle, but the other stuff was enough of a spanner in the works to stop me outright loving the book as a whole.

Loved The Secret History the first time I read it, liked it but a bit less the second time. As an aside, Tana French's The Likeness is a complete rip-off the TSH as well as being entirely implausible (although despite its faults, I enjoyed seeing the set-up transferred to an Irish setting).

Didn't feel engaged by TLF and haven't tried The Goldfinch.

Loss and loneliness ultimately made the lead in the Goldfinch selfish, exploitative of others and a criminal, so he wasn't very likeable towards the end, though it doesn't make him unsympathetic which is one of the things the book did well.

However, I actually thought many of the characters in it were not plausible enough to have feelings about either way - they all seemed a bit silly, like "stock" background characters, esp "Boris the dodgy Russian", the rich family that took him in and Dumbledore, whoops I mean Hobie.

Maybe it's not so much about finding the characters unlikeable, as finding them plausible such that you actually care what happens to them. Just thinking for example - We Need To Talk About Kevin - I couldn't find the mother believable at all, zero ability to relate to her - and so I really couldn't care about what happened (that and I thought the 'twist' was bloody obvious from about page 5).
OTOH - Mrs Norris in Mansfield Park is dreadful, but utterly believable as a character, you can see exactly why she ended up as she did.

"I also couldn't finish The Goldfinch because I found the characters unlikeable."

So? I see this sort of comment in Amazon reviews, as well, and honestly can't understand what it has to do with a good & worthy book vs badly written crap one

Some great books I read were about "unlikeable" characters - Confessions Of A Sociopath was truly fascinating. The Strangest Man about quantum physicist Paul Dirac was also brilliant.

OK I get that maybe you want to feel like BFFs with the characters when reading chick lit but a book like The Goldfinch? And anyway, what was "unlikeable" about the protagonist who lost his mum in a terrorist attack as a child where he also suffered a concussion, and then struggled to make his way in the world? What was so terribly "unlikeable" about the antique furniture guy who helped him out?

Sorry, I don't mean to sound like I'm berating you for your taste in books (and I'm really not one to talk ) but I would like to understand why some people have to see literary characters they would want to be friends with. There are so many incredible books out there that are not about naice people.

Just finished book number 2 high fidelity by Nick Hornby. Now to see what all the fuss over the girl on the train is all about.

I agree satzuki. Kind of "well, that guy's a prick and so is that guy. I hope they get their comeuppance. And actually that guy is hideous. And so is she" and so on. Interesting to look in and see it all unfold.

Oh every what an absolute Scunner. It is hideously bad. The author is pegged as being literary but that just means she writes pages of description of shit all. My husband actually had to ask me to stop talking about how much I hated it.

Oh fuck me. You are joking crisp?

Arlington Park is my next book.

I'm not picking these btw they are set texts on my course KILL ME NOW

That is probably why people who buy NW buy Arlington Park they are on the same course!

Secret History = LOVE
Little Friend = LOATHE
Goldfinch = MEH

Thanks southeastdweller good to know I can carry over.

Also, thanks Cote - have been wondering about the Peter Hamilton books (they keep popping up on Amazon recommendations) but 3k pages of zombie sounds a bit much.

I think I enjoyed The Secret History when I read it (ages ago). Never tried The Little Friend, but I thought The Goldfinch was wonderful.

1 The Nest by Cynthia D'Aprix Sweeney
2 Our Endless Numbered Days by Claire Fuller
3 Ready Player One by Ernest Cline (audible)
4 Miss Pettigrew Lives for a Day by Winifred Watson

5 Everyone Brave is Forgiven by Chris Cleave. I absolutely loved this, I wanted to race through it and yet not finish it so quickly. It's a book I wanted to mark, underline highlight etc, but couldn't as it was a library book. Oh well. I have read Life After Life and A God in Ruins by Kate Atkinson fairly recently and enjoyed both so was a little hesitant about starting Everyone Brave as the era and cast could be considered similar. But I wasn't disappointed. What I particularly liked was the dialogue between main characters and I liked the unexpected fates and themes in the second half of the book. I know that's a fairly vague critique but I don't want to give away any story.

I have read The Secret History one and a half times. The first time, when it was first published, I absolutely loved it. Second time I didn't enjoy it at all, didn't like the characters and couldn't finish it. I also couldn't finish The Goldfinch because I found the characters unlikeable.

Currently listening to Still Life by Louise Penny on audible. It's good, I'll probably listen to another Inspector Gamache after this as a result.

Not sure what to read next. As always. Either The North Water - it seems to be very popular lately. Or maybe Jamaica Inn by Daphne du Maurier. Choices.