Lamentation by CJ Sansom - anyone read it and want to discuss it?

While we're talking about how likely it is that Jack might survive his injuries, that reminds me: the other thing about what Sansom did to Jack (you see I take it very personally!): not content to lop off his xxxx - do we really need spoilers here? the thread title clearly asks if anyone has read the book and wants to discuss it - in the same attack he also has a sword thrust into his back! Surely he would have to be exceptionally lucky not to have the sword penetrate at least one of his vital organs? And yet that major wound is totally trivialised.

Yes, yes, even a maimed Jack is better than a dead Jack. In fact, a maimed Jack might well be an angry, vengeful Jack and I could quite enjoy reading about that, as long as Shardlake was there to stop him going too far (rather like in Revelation when he was trying to mend Jack and Tamasin's marriage).

Nicholas is ok - give the poor lad a chance Remus! - but why start with a new assistant when you have a perfectly good one already? I mean that question for Sansom. I actually wonder whether the man realises what a female following Jack has. I don't often feel the urge to write to authors, but I admit it crossed my mind after reading Lamentation, hence this thread after I decided Sansom would probably take me for an idiotic love struck teenager if I wrote to him about his treatment of a fictional character

I also love the Giordano Bruno books. I know on a literary level they probably can't compete with Shardlake, but I love the character and I would say there has been a greater consistency in the quality of the plots than Sansom has achieved Heresy I know!

I was looking up the Rory Clements books the other day but didn't end up buying one because I hadn't seen a recommendation for them before. I might take another look. And also at the other books recommended here. I like the idea of a different period.

The other Tudor ones I have read (but didn't really enjoy) are the Phil Rickman ones about John Dee, and of course Hilary Mantel but they obviously aren't crime/mystery novels.

Yes I agree absolutely with you (apart from the Lewis Collins bit!)

I too would have liked a slower development for Nicholas. I can't quite remember the detail but something in the early part of the book suggested he was going to be totally unsuitable as a companion. I even briefly wondered if he was going to betray Shardlake. And then, suddenly, he is right there ready to take Barak's place as the reliable sidekick .

And yes, Tamasin is a great character but surely by Tudor standards she would be considered a scold. I sometimes wonder about scolds and ducking stools. Would every dominant woman end up on one or only those whose entire relationship with their husbands had broken down? I'm not quite sure how to take some of the seemingly modern characteristics Sansom writes about like the woman with agoraphobia or the man who enjoys being beaten by prostitutes. I suppose these things must have occurred still, but I am not so sure Shardlake would have had such a modern acceptance of them.

And hello MrsWooster too.

The thing with Nicholas though is

a) he is from the gentry, like Shardlake himself, so I don't see him being enough of a counterpoint to Shardlake and

b) (and I admit this is probably my misconception as it wasn't really bourn (sp?) out in the latter part of the book) I picture Nicholas as a rather weedy type. Brought up on the finer points of swordplay no doubt, but not particularly strong. Whereas Barak was right out of the gutter and exuded muscles and raw power.

Hooray, you're here Treacle!

Lewis Collins?! Really?! Well, he was a teenage crush of mine but I can't say Jack springs to mind when I picture him.

Yes, I am not sure why a man as clever as Sansom should allow himself to get fixated on certain words and phrases. Use a thesaurus man, if you really can't think of another word. I thought this book's top phrase was 'God give you good morrow'. It may be historically accurate, but I had occasion to look back at Sovereign earlier, and he was content to use plain 'good morning' then.

Yes I accept that he accepts the decision. I just thought, given Sansom's penchant for reminding us of things on a fairly regular level, that he would have had Shardlake thinking about it. Not from the perspective of 'how odd that she is doing this' but more along the lines of him worrying for her/his safety or her/his true identity being exposed.

I realise it wasn't relevant to the plot of Lamentation, but neither was it relevant particularly to mention that Guy used to be a monk (ok, maybe a little, to explain why he was so set against Shardlake's religious standpoint) yet he always does mention it at some point in every book.

Anyway, it just made me question the little I had remembered about Heartstone, so thanks for confirming that I had remembered correctly.

Yes, it's the same Hugh. And he decided to continue living as a boy.

That's what I remembered. Don't you think it's odd that, within the privacy of his thoughts, Shardlake doesn't 'mention' that, iyswim?

Oh Treacle - I hope you haven't read the thread too closely. I wouldn't want to spoil anything for you.

I have just googled Tom Chambers. Yes, physically, he would fit Jack well. He has the right level of good looks. But the voice is important too!

Argh! My first line in my previous post should have said 'Dissolution and Dark Fire were the best.'

Yes, I think Revelation and Dark Fire are the best although I rather liked Revelation because the action came so thick and fast and the whole concept of a serial killer knocking people off according to the book of Revelation was gruesomely fascinating. I loved the idea of Shardlake trying to help the agoraphobe whose name escapes me (Ellen?) in Bedlam too.

I shall have to read Heartstone again. It is the only one, apart from Lamentation of course, that I have only read once. On that note, I thought the big reveal at the end of that was that Hugh was really a girl? Is this the same Hugh he is writing to in Lamentation? Yet there is no mention of 'him' being a 'her'? I must have that wrong.

I suppose that now Jack is married with children he can't be the adventurer he once was but I think his character deserves more than to be pensioned off.

I would be happy enough just to have him commenting from the sidelines. I missed his down to earth comments and disrespectful attitude towards the nobility in Lamentation. Shardlake can be a bit too 'proper' at times. He needs Jack saying arsehole occasionally! And yes, I agree re his mooning over Catherine Parr. She looks a right trout in her portraits and I would have thought her religious zeal would be a turn off to Shardlake who is dangling on the edge of atheism so I don't quite see the attraction.

I'm like you regarding who would best play the characters. I don't have a clear enough picture of the physical appearance of any of them to judge. When Dark Fire was serialised on Radio 4, I remember the person playing Barak didn't really fit my impression of his voice, but it would be hard to pick someone I think would fit.