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Lindsay Clancy case: was it evil, or severe mental illness?

935 replies

KellyK2026 · 04/09/2026 16:50

Lindsay Clancy, what do we all think? Pure evil or mentally ill?

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BingoJingo · Yesterday 18:33

KellyK2026 · Yesterday 18:26

But according to the law, yes, it isn’t murder if their judgement is greatly impaired due to a mental health condition. It’s not excusing it, it’s still a crime but it’s not murder.

And plenty of people try to claim insanity, very few people have the mountain of evidence that LC has.

Mountain of evidence? What an absolute joke. You have fallen for this woman's lies hook, line and sinker.

Aluna · Yesterday 18:31

BruachAbhann · Yesterday 16:09

Do you live in America? If not, you are indulging in 'misogynist telescopic philanthropy'.

I don't expect women to bring their babies along to marches and hold them up and say 'same Lindsay' as if to say there but for the grace of god go I. I don't expect women to say that men are not 'allowed' have an opinion on this case because they can't suffer from PPP. I also don't expect women to shut down the debate on the case and say that only someone who has watched the entire trial is allowed to talk about it, which I've seen a lot, on this thread too. I don't expect women to have copycat killings.

'This case is being heard to determine whether she ends up in prison or psychiatric hospital. And clearly I favour the latter. She has a full life sentence anyway'.

And what if she's allowed out after a 6 month review? Would you be ok with that?

My perspective is not misogynist: ie focused solely on the children and PC to the exclusion of the woman at the centre of the tragedy. In fact I’d include the wider family and grandparents.

If you have a problem with Europeans discussing an American case you’re free to report the thread.

You have a lot to complain about women I wonder why that is. If you simply don’t like them, this may not be the forum for you.

(Not clear what the ‘it is convenient’ para refers to)

BingoJingo · Yesterday 18:31

KellyK2026 · Yesterday 18:21

I think, too, that she perhaps wasn’t taken seriously because 1. She was a woman, and 2. She was white, middle-class, attractive and educated. Society doesn’t expect a mother like that to kill her children. But if a man expressed thoughts of wanting to kill himself and harm his kids and had checked himself into a psyche ward a couple of weeks prior, I wonder if anyone would think he should be left alone with the kids? I think if she was male people would be thinking how the hell did he get to stay at home with the kids and not be receiving 24/7 care. I don’t think any mother on here would want their male partner around their children if they knew what the doctors and family members knew about LC.

Edited

Are you trying to blame Patrick for going out on an errand and leaving her alone with the children for 40 minutes? I really hope not as he testified that he was never told that he could not leave her alone with the children because she was a) not diagnosed by any of the psychiatrists she saw as having post partum psychosis and b) was not deemed to be a danger to them.

It sounds like you are trying to frame LC as the victim of her wealthy, white and middle class status... She did not take her medication as prescribed, she was never diagnosed with PPP, she never heard a voice until the convenient time frame when Patrick was out of the house, the voice did not tell her what to do, what method to use to kill the children, the order of death, the means of death. None, nada. She held onto those exercise bands until she took the life out of her children. The last thing those sweet children saw was their own mother strangling them. It is pure horror.

On the anniversaries of their deaths and their birthdays she was observed in Tewkesbury as being absolutely fine and dandy. Six months after my brother died to the day I was in absolute bits. Do you not find this strange? If you were in psychosis you would wake up in absolute horror, she did not did she? She asked if she needed a lawyer.

Wake up will you, the mental gymnastics in play to retrospectively diagnose her with PPP, like some form of barrack room collective of psychiatrists, is sickening.

KellyK2026 · Yesterday 18:30

MissMoneyFairy · Yesterday 18:27

Maybe she wasn't taken seriously if she denied suicidal thoughts, changed doctors, didn't take meds, told everyone she was feeling better. I don't think she told any health workers she had thoughts on harming her children according to the prosecution final closing argument.

Her husband testified that she told him that she had thoughts of harming the children. Let that sink in. Imagine if a man told his wife that he had thoughts of harming their children and she left him alone with the kids, what do you think society would think of the woman? They would think she’s irresponsible for leaving the kids alone with a man who, weeks prior was in a psyche ward, and had told her he wanted to kill himself and harm the children.

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MissMoneyFairy · Yesterday 18:27

Maybe she wasn't taken seriously if she denied suicidal thoughts, changed doctors, didn't take meds, told everyone she was feeling better. I don't think she told any health workers she had thoughts on harming her children according to the prosecution final closing argument.

Disappointed100 · Yesterday 18:26

Clarenewme · Yesterday 18:17

She had warning signs. If I had thoughts of harming my daughter I’d stay as far away as possible. I wouldn’t need someone else to tell me that. Where could she go? Hmmm literally anywhere away from her children until her condition was stable. Even if that takes a year or so.

No. The way your rational mind is right now, you think you would leave.

If you were suffering immensely, AND you were being told by professionals that this medication would help, AND you believed your kids would suffer if you weren't there, then you have no idea what you'd do.

KellyK2026 · Yesterday 18:26

BruachAbhann · Yesterday 18:24

She should still be criminally responsible for the crime of killing her kids. If we are to excuse murder because someone might not have known it was wrong given their state of mind, couldn't everyone claim they were psychotic and literally get away with murder?

But according to the law, yes, it isn’t murder if their judgement is greatly impaired due to a mental health condition. It’s not excusing it, it’s still a crime but it’s not murder.

And plenty of people try to claim insanity, very few people have the mountain of evidence that LC has.

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BruachAbhann · Yesterday 18:24

StraightTalkingTina · Yesterday 18:16

Actually the issue is not whether she was psychotic, it’s whether she was too unwell to appreciate the criminality or wrongfulness of her conduct, OR to conform her conduct to the requirements of the law.

it is convenient that you exclude ‘killing your children’ on the list of acceptable behaviour or evidence of a mentally unwell woman achieving 1 or 2 above, when it is that action that precisely determines just how unwell she was. That and her own suicide attempt of course.

reminding that she did report thoughts of self harm and causing harm to the children, which everyone brushed off. They didn’t believe she was capable of anything so bad. Because they didn’t understand her condition.

She should still be criminally responsible for the crime of killing her kids. If we are to excuse murder because someone might not have known it was wrong given their state of mind, couldn't everyone claim they were psychotic and literally get away with murder?

KellyK2026 · Yesterday 18:21

StraightTalkingTina · Yesterday 18:16

Actually the issue is not whether she was psychotic, it’s whether she was too unwell to appreciate the criminality or wrongfulness of her conduct, OR to conform her conduct to the requirements of the law.

it is convenient that you exclude ‘killing your children’ on the list of acceptable behaviour or evidence of a mentally unwell woman achieving 1 or 2 above, when it is that action that precisely determines just how unwell she was. That and her own suicide attempt of course.

reminding that she did report thoughts of self harm and causing harm to the children, which everyone brushed off. They didn’t believe she was capable of anything so bad. Because they didn’t understand her condition.

I think, too, that she perhaps wasn’t taken seriously because 1. She was a woman, and 2. She was white, middle-class, attractive and educated. Society doesn’t expect a mother like that to kill her children. But if a man expressed thoughts of wanting to kill himself and harm his kids and had checked himself into a psyche ward a couple of weeks prior, I wonder if anyone would think he should be left alone with the kids? I think if she was male people would be thinking how the hell did he get to stay at home with the kids and not be receiving 24/7 care. I don’t think any mother on here would want their male partner around their children if they knew what the doctors and family members knew about LC.

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Clarenewme · Yesterday 18:17

Mazouzasou · Yesterday 09:52

Where was she supposed to go? She tried to get help. Multiple times. Family was aware of how she was feeling. I don't think a drive up the road to stay at family's house would have fixed them

She had warning signs. If I had thoughts of harming my daughter I’d stay as far away as possible. I wouldn’t need someone else to tell me that. Where could she go? Hmmm literally anywhere away from her children until her condition was stable. Even if that takes a year or so.

StraightTalkingTina · Yesterday 18:16

CloverAndGrass · Yesterday 17:30

Her clinical history and diary are evidence that she was mentally unwell, not that she was in psychosis. I don’t think anyone is disputing that she was mentally unwell. I’m certainly not. No-one who saw her clinically before the murders diagnosed her with psychosis or any psychotic symptoms. The conversations with her family again do not show psychosis. You can be unwell and deteriorating and asking for help without being psychotic and completely out of control of your own actions. The lack of appropriate care again is not evidence of psychosis.

What evidence would affirm for me that she was in psychosis? Evidence of behaviour other than murdering her children which it would be difficult to explain without psychosis. Evidence of this type of behaviour at any time before she murdered her children. Evidence that LC had reported psychotic symptoms to clinicians before she murdered her children.

Actually the issue is not whether she was psychotic, it’s whether she was too unwell to appreciate the criminality or wrongfulness of her conduct, OR to conform her conduct to the requirements of the law.

it is convenient that you exclude ‘killing your children’ on the list of acceptable behaviour or evidence of a mentally unwell woman achieving 1 or 2 above, when it is that action that precisely determines just how unwell she was. That and her own suicide attempt of course.

reminding that she did report thoughts of self harm and causing harm to the children, which everyone brushed off. They didn’t believe she was capable of anything so bad. Because they didn’t understand her condition.

StraightTalkingTina · Yesterday 18:08

CloverAndGrass · Yesterday 17:06

I think you may be mixing up @mulberrymilk and me. I will reply to you about evidence for psychosis question shortly.

And how can a totally sane cold blooded murderer also be actively suicidal at the same time?

This is a very, very strange question. Many murderers, including for example school mass shooters and family annihilators, are sane cold blooded murderers AND actively suicidal at the same time. It is a not uncommon pattern amongst murderers.

It’s not a strange question at all.

its about the clinical position of the individual to be legally sane in killing their children but also legally meeting the threshold of institutional detention due to being actively suicidal.

The two are not compatible.

other cases are irrelevant unless you want to debate the mental health of each perpetrator too. School shootings, awful example, yet largely where children and young people also have warning signals that were ignored or missed.

admittedly, often not as clearly as Lindsey did and yet she is being berated for that.

CloverAndGrass · Yesterday 17:30

StraightTalkingTina · Yesterday 14:39

Her clinical history. The contents of her diary. The conversations she had with her family. The witness statements confirming she was deteriorating quickly and begging for help. The evidenced lack of appropriate clinical care.

thats enough for reasonable doubt over whether she could have been having a psychotic episode with auditory hallucinations.

In addition to that,
the fact she was then diagnosed with Bi Polar. Knowing the impact of the medications she was given on someone who is BPD and not treated. And having direct experience of someone living in and out of psychotic episodes.

what evidence would you need to be presented that would ‘affirm’ for you that she was suffering psychosis at the time? What does that evidence look like?

Her clinical history and diary are evidence that she was mentally unwell, not that she was in psychosis. I don’t think anyone is disputing that she was mentally unwell. I’m certainly not. No-one who saw her clinically before the murders diagnosed her with psychosis or any psychotic symptoms. The conversations with her family again do not show psychosis. You can be unwell and deteriorating and asking for help without being psychotic and completely out of control of your own actions. The lack of appropriate care again is not evidence of psychosis.

What evidence would affirm for me that she was in psychosis? Evidence of behaviour other than murdering her children which it would be difficult to explain without psychosis. Evidence of this type of behaviour at any time before she murdered her children. Evidence that LC had reported psychotic symptoms to clinicians before she murdered her children.

CloverAndGrass · Yesterday 17:06

StraightTalkingTina · Yesterday 15:23

You’ve been given the list of meds from her toxicology report.

Would you answer my question? What does evidence of psychosis look like for you?

And how can a totally sane cold blooded murderer also be actively suicidal at the same time?

she has no injuries from her bodies auto response to jumping out of a window. She didn’t put her arms out to protect herself. How is someone able to override those natural human instincts?

I think you may be mixing up @mulberrymilk and me. I will reply to you about evidence for psychosis question shortly.

And how can a totally sane cold blooded murderer also be actively suicidal at the same time?

This is a very, very strange question. Many murderers, including for example school mass shooters and family annihilators, are sane cold blooded murderers AND actively suicidal at the same time. It is a not uncommon pattern amongst murderers.

Tuesdayschild50 · Yesterday 17:02

You must be mentally ill can't imagine anyone being of sound mind doing something so horrific like ending her own children's lives.
Where were the authorities when she was crying out for help .. they're to blame for all of this.

MissMoneyFairy · Yesterday 16:58

What reason did she give for killing the children and making a suicide attempt? She was alert enough to request dnr despite her injuries and emergency meds.

CloverAndGrass · Yesterday 16:58

KellyK2026 · Yesterday 15:06

Doesn’t make it not true either. Either way I think her receiving death threats for it is a bit extreme, don’t you?

Watch the video. It’s clear as day what she was doing. Why don’t need to take anyone’s word for it. Yes, it’s totally wrong that anyone is sending her death threats. I hope she never works as a journalist or in any capacity to do with children again though.

KellyK2026 · Yesterday 16:37

OpenScroller · Yesterday 16:29

If she 'fully intended to kill herself', why not sever her carotid artery when cutting her neck, as has been pointed out on this thread, she would have been well aware where it was?

Why discard the the children, who she loved so much, on the floor after she murdered them in the basement and go up a 1st floor bedroom, lock the door and make non life threatening injuries? Why not stay with her children in the basement if she really was delusional enough to believe she was 'protecting them' by killing them?

You’re asking me questions as though I’m her. I can’t answer for her. I don’t know why she did what she did as none of it was rational. I do know that however she fell out of the window it resulted in serious injuries which she would’ve died from without immediate medical intervention. She wanted to sign a DNR immediately but was denied.

I think a lot of the things she did can’t be rationalised because I don’t believe she was rational. Her defence claims that she wasn’t rational at the time, which may explain why her actions don’t make sense to us.

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OpenScroller · Yesterday 16:31

She also must have been pretty lucid to ask for a DNR as you said. Also probably lucid enough to know, as a nurse, that they would not grant one.

KellyK2026 · Yesterday 16:31

EasternStandard · Yesterday 16:25

It’s ok to correct imo, there’s loads of detail to the case. Generally it’s been a pretty interesting thread.

It has and most commenters have been pretty respectful, even if we’ve disagreed. However, in Mulberry’s case, I corrected them when they said that LC wrote that she hated her son and, instead of accepting that, they more or less wrote that I was obviously fine with the killing of children. That’s not someone who you can have a conversation with.

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OpenScroller · Yesterday 16:29

KellyK2026 · Yesterday 16:05

That’s pure speculation. She needed a breathing tube. She went into cardiac arrest. She asked for a DNR prior to going into cardiac arrest and the doctors refused to grant her one. If they had, she’d be dead. I do believe she fully intended to kill herself and the medical reports show that her spine literally exploded in places.

Edited

If she 'fully intended to kill herself', why not sever her carotid artery when cutting her neck, as has been pointed out on this thread, she would have been well aware where it was?

Why discard the the children, who she loved so much, on the floor after she murdered them in the basement and go up a 1st floor bedroom, lock the door and make non life threatening injuries? Why not stay with her children in the basement if she really was delusional enough to believe she was 'protecting them' by killing them?

EasternStandard · Yesterday 16:25

KellyK2026 · Yesterday 16:21

It’s not the view that’s the problem, it’s the posting things that aren’t true and not listening to counterarguments when they are backed up with evidence and instead saying ‘it’s just semantics’. No, it’s evidence that has been used in a court of law. It isn’t up for debate whether the meds negatively impacted on LC, it’s in her medical records what she reported and what the doctors did in response to it. e.g. LC told doctors that certain medications were making her worse (she also documented the affects of each medication in her journal) and, instead of listening to her, they increased the dosage. That’s been proven.

Edited

It’s ok to correct imo, there’s loads of detail to the case. Generally it’s been a pretty interesting thread.

KellyK2026 · Yesterday 16:21

EasternStandard · Yesterday 16:12

@mulberrymilkcan post, it doesn’t need to be don’t bother etc. It’s not one view about all this.

It’s not the view that’s the problem, it’s the posting things that aren’t true and not listening to counterarguments when they are backed up with evidence and instead saying ‘it’s just semantics’. No, it’s evidence that has been used in a court of law. It isn’t up for debate whether the meds negatively impacted on LC, it’s in her medical records what she reported and what the doctors did in response to it. e.g. LC told doctors that certain medications were making her worse (she also documented the affects of each medication in her journal) and, instead of listening to her, they increased the dosage. That’s been proven.

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EasternStandard · Yesterday 16:12

KellyK2026 · Yesterday 16:08

Honestly I wouldn’t bother trying to put any evidence to mulberry as they aren’t interested in listening to the facts. Any one of us that watched the trial knows that LC had a bad reaction to the meds and, when she voiced this, the doctors put her dose up rather than down. It’s shocking malpractice and they’ve not denied doing it.

@mulberrymilkcan post, it doesn’t need to be don’t bother etc. It’s not one view about all this.

KellyK2026 · Yesterday 16:12

BruachAbhann · Yesterday 16:09

Do you live in America? If not, you are indulging in 'misogynist telescopic philanthropy'.

I don't expect women to bring their babies along to marches and hold them up and say 'same Lindsay' as if to say there but for the grace of god go I. I don't expect women to say that men are not 'allowed' have an opinion on this case because they can't suffer from PPP. I also don't expect women to shut down the debate on the case and say that only someone who has watched the entire trial is allowed to talk about it, which I've seen a lot, on this thread too. I don't expect women to have copycat killings.

'This case is being heard to determine whether she ends up in prison or psychiatric hospital. And clearly I favour the latter. She has a full life sentence anyway'.

And what if she's allowed out after a 6 month review? Would you be ok with that?

Nobody has said that you can’t participate on this Thread if you haven’t watched the full trial. But if you’re going to write barefaced lies, like ‘LC wrote in her diary that she hated her son’ be prepared to be called out for it by people who have done their research. Unfortunately rather than admitting they were wrong, some commenters have doubled down.

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