Lindsay Clancy case: was it evil, or severe mental illness?

What? Everyone who heard the 911 call in court where he is screaming in pure torture at finding his kids in the basement said it was the most horrific thing they ever heard. She did kill her kids, she has admitted this. She used exercise bands to methodically strangle them to death.

Ah yes, “they’d be better off dead””, the rationalisation used by suicidal family annihilators the world over.

You sound like you it you think it’s some sort of reasonable, understandable rationale. Do you?

or while she was killing the kids (or not), it was literally Patrick who was telling her to kill them, and not in her head at all....

Able to afford a nanny three days a week. Hardly below the poverty line.

I don't get how it's a fair point. Regardless of whose idea it was, regardless of how she seemed, she has made it very clear to him that she isn't in a good way, and she was therefore not left alone. Her mother slept beside her due to her extreme concern. (she also says that is why she googled how long the journey would take, as she was concerned at being alone).

Yet going to collect a takeaway - and being in no rush to return (eg sending an email from his car) was fine?? He could have taken the kids with him, or they all could have gone, or he could have arranged for it to be delivered, etc

What’s interesting re this other case you’ve shared is that the prosecution and defence - and all medical experts - agree that she was NGRI. There’s a lot of cases in the US where the same happens, it’s unanimous. The difference with Lindsay (and why everyone is so fascinated) is that it’s really not clear nor unanimous. And having watched the trial there are many many reasons for that.

She was admitted to hospital and she left to enjoy her child's birthday party earlier in the month they were killed. She was on low doses of medication that she took inconsistently and yet her defence is that she was over medicated. It is unusual for a mother to kill her children in such a brutal way the first time they hear a command voice. And the command voice did not tell her what to do, how to do it, those came from her own mind. This was established in the evidence. The support for this woman is just horrific.

There is a mixed view on how affluent they actually were. Varying views I should say. Some say they were not well off by US standards.

"Stating that men are responsible for the vast and overwhelming majority of violent crime is misandry?"

You have also misread or misunderstood my point.

I didn't deny that men are responsible for the vast majority of violent crime but some are committed by women and in such cases these are also blamed indirectly on men denying that these women have agency.

In this case there are plenty of women who blame Patrick for the killings directly when there is no evidence he killed his children. Why purely on the basis of his sex - and statistics.

or indirectly by not doing enough to helping her

It can actually be both. It’s not as simple as mad/bad, it’s very nuanced and even severe mental
illness doesn’t always negate criminal responsibility. See Valdo Calocane. Schizophrenic but still criminally liable for manslaughter.

Although I haven’t followed this case that closely as I’m not interested.

I absolutely believe this to be the case too. She was not diagnosed with post part psychosis, she heard the supposed voice this one time only in the exact time frame her husband was running errands that she orchestrated. It is all very convenient. She was using exercise bands again to exercise whilst in hospital. She is cold, calculated and she didn't enjoy her children.

They were a wealthy family, able to afford inpatient treatment for her at McLean Hospital, plus all the other doctors, psychiatrists, and therapists she saw.

This is a fair point @Disappointed100

A takeaway she ordered and asked him to pick up.

And shortly beforehand, she was making a snowman and playing with the children.

i don’t think she was diagnosed with PPP despite repeatedly seeking help for symptoms that pointed in that direction

America. The sheer cost of it. Insurance. They may not have had the finances or the insurance to cover the cost.

"they had reasonable doubt she committed first degree murder."

Obviously, since that is what she was charged with. But we still don't, or are permitted to, know the following

Did they have reasonable doubts that she even killed them?

Or did they have reasonable doubts she knew what she was doing due to state of mind etc?

And in both cases what evidence / testimony etc led to this reasonable doubt.

Most people accept she killed her children and while she remains technically innocent for the time being if the prosecution offer a plea deal of not guilty by reason of insanity, I suspect he defence would accept it

Time will tell.

I haven't followed this closely, so I can't have an opinion on whether she was severely mentally unwell or not.
However, in my experience of caring for a couple of women with severe post partum psychosis (which is NOT the same as post partum depression), if she was diagnosed with PPP, I cannot understand why she was not hospitalised in a high dependency psychiatric unit with 1 to 1 care until stabilised on effective treatment.

PC admitted that one google search re "suicide" was made by him

Agree. Jumping out of a bedroom window is going to hurt or cause damage but it’s absolutely not certain to kill you. If someone wants to kill themself then it’s a risk assuming this will be successful as it likely wont and wasn’t. There is a bridge near me and people go there as there is no way of surviving due to height.

Yes but that she still did it. But with NGRI verdict.

Your last line is key. The jury’s verdict was towards NGRI not that she didn’t do it at all.

A dreadful conclusion that belongs in centuries long gone.
Having a mental health condition does not make a person evil.
And people who can be called evil may be entirely rational and not impacted by a mental health condition at all.
Saying that anyone evil has a mental health condition ‘gets them off the hook’.
Some of the worst leaders in history did/do not have a mental health condition. But were/are certainly evil. And knew/know full well what they were/are doing.

Some poor soul who is ill because their brain works ( or doesn’t sometimes) in a way we do not yet fully understand is not automatically evil.

"Lindsay's last recorded heart rate was 57 beats per minute—which is considered low—while app data showed that she climbed two flights of stairs at 5:03 and 5:33 p.m. However, Lindsay's attorney Kevin Reddington challenged the reliability of the data during cross-examination, noting that Lindsay's watch stopped recording at 5:23 p.m. and her phone stopped recording at 5:38 p.m."

Stating that men are responsible for the vast and overwhelming majority of violent crime is misandry? What a joke.

you’re also missing the point of my post. The fact that women CAN be violent and commit heinous crimes, albeit at a far lower frequency than men, is the point and because it runs so contrary of social constructions of femininity and motherhood, I think it’s why you see a lot of people racking their brains and clutching at straws that is wasn’t her, because ‘loving mothers don’t do this’ and she was by all testimony a ‘loving mother’ because the alternative is too difficult to reconcile.

i also fear trying to prove she didn’t do it misses the point, as a society we desperately need a conversation about the discrepancy in healthcare between men and women and the woeful lack of understanding and support in terms of maternal mental health as exemplified by this case and the plethora of women who have come forward and said they’ve encountered similar