Lindsay Clancy case: was it evil, or severe mental illness?

Well yes reading back I agree with you in the first part of the post.

I still agree with @BingoJingoon PC which is a broader point on anyone blaming him.

As for ‘sensitive re PC’ and ‘heaping blame on LC’ that’s a bit strange given she did it.

JT wasnt experienced in any psychiatry let alone PPP.

In any case there’s a disconnect between the DSM-5 and clinical practice.

First of all, PPP is not entered as a stand alone diagnosis. Secondly it’s applied with a very rigid timeframe relating to the immediate perinatal period.

In practice thé post partum period is extended to the entire 12 months after delivery. Late onset episodes can be triggered by multiple factors.

Apparently so as you’re the one who said to me:

“He’s already seen the worst thing imaginable, he doesn’t need internet blame for any of it.”

Now you’re telling me: “PC is not on trial btw.”

As I said, if you read my posts I have never blamed PC for anything.

Are you replying to the correct poster?

She did actually do it so yes it is her that bears that. The NGRI verdict may still happen, and so be it if that’s what the jury decide.

PC is not on trial btw.

I would argue that ANY parent who murders their children is in a 'psychotic state'.

It's certainly not something a sane parent would do.

So do you feel the same about fathers who murder their children, family annihilators?

I have listened to the testimonies and what you say does not correlate with my recollection. They all said that this treatment aligned with the accepted approach. Her ridiculous bully of a lawyer tried to make out that they should have 'investigated' her interactions with other hospitals. She was responsible for informing them of this.

She was competent to give her own account and they saw her in this way. They all followed and applied the diagnostic criteria for PPP as per the DSM V and she did not meet it.

You are casting assertions on their competence because they were not experienced in PPP but they were well aware of the diagnostic criteria. They are all board certified psychiatrists but everyone here knows better seemingly..

Yes, because it’s failing to understand the extent of LC’s serious mental illness and torment. Can you even imagine what it would feel like to wake up from a psychotic state to find you had killed your own children? It’s unimaginable. And that’s the problem.

Before this mental health crisis she was by all accounts a loving mother, competent nurse.

Why are you saying this to me? I’ve never blamed him in any of my posts.

It’s interesting you’re so sensitive to blame on PC but super happy to heap blame on LC.

Are you seriously saying that philanthropy focusing on murdered children, at the exclusion of their mother, the murderer, is misogynistic?

SM is one way a good thing, in that people can share views and opinions, but it's also terrifying to find out how some people think!

Yes, unfortunately. It’s such a sad story.

Listen to the testimonies. They have said they had no experience with PPP. They have admitted to taking LC word on medications without checking her medical record (despite the fact she’d just booked herself into a locked mental health facility). They admitted to a disjointed approach where information was not being passed on, even within the same hospital. Those are huge blunders which make it very hard to believe that LC was receiving adequate care.

Listen to the testimonies. They have said they had no experience with PPP. They have admitted to taking LC word on medications without checking her medical record (despite the fact she’d just booked herself into a locked mental health facility). They admitted to a disjointed approach where information was not being passed on, even within the same hospital. Those are huge blunders which make it very hard to believe that LC was receiving adequate care.

@BruachAbhann

using long-distance, high-profile charity to ignore the immediate suffering of women close to home

Why would you think it meant that? I would have thought it self-explanatory from the sentence:

“I don’t personally indulge misogynist telescopic philanthropy which focuses on the children to the exclusion of LC”

I meant a narrowly directed concern focused solely on the children to the exclusion of their mother. That is the misogyny.

You did try to imply I was misogynist with the following words:

”you are indulging in 'misogynist telescopic philanthropy'”

There is nothing misogynist whatsoever in anything I have said.

As to the claim there’s not sufficient evidence to show she was psychotic - there was plenty of evidence at the trial of psychotic symptoms so either you didn’t bother to follow the evidence or you didn’t realise that’s what they were.

She didn't give the medication she was prescribed enough time to work before she went off to a different person.

As a nurse she should have known that she needed to take them as prescribed.

Why are you saying this to me? I’ve never blamed him in any of my posts.

It’s interesting you’re so sensitive to blame on PC but super happy to heap blame on LC.

But have you heard the testimonies of the doctors that treated her? None of them had experience with PPP and they admitted to failings.

Again, I’ve said repeatedly that what LC did was wrong and personally do not understand why she did what she did. But others failed too. You can’t look at this case and exclude LC. If she’s found guilty then she’s found guilty. But I don’t believe that’s how it’s going to go based on the evidence and what’s just happened with this mistrial. I think she needs to spend the rest of her life in a mental health facility.

I don’t mind the posts about any failings with the system, but I agree with @BingoJingore PC.

He’s already seen the worst thing imaginable, he doesn’t need internet blame for any of it.

She didn’t shop around. She kept repeatedly reaching out for help because the treatments she was given weren’t working and was passed from pillar to post.

The same thing happens here.

‘She described having thoughts of hurting the kids…’ that information alone would be enough for me to take it very seriously. Perhaps for others it wouldn’t. We aren’t going to agree on that as it’s objective. What one person sees as a threat another might not. Personally I would’ve passed that information onto the professional treating her.

But your characterising this as missed opportunities negates the role that LC herself played in all of this. By not being honest with Drs, shopping around for different treatments, not taking the medication (which was given in very conservative doses), she herself played a role.

She did not show signs of PPP to the treating psychiatrists, and this was only said retrospectively to get her off the hook in my opinion.

She acted on a vague command voice the first time she heard it and then took that as the basis to execute the brutal slaughter of her kids one by one using different exercise bands to kill them. This is so vanishingly rare according to one of the experts.

I am not buying her story. She did not appear to express any sadness on their anniversaries... This is so weird, cold and callous.

‘She described having thoughts of hurting the kids…’ that information alone would be enough for me to take it very seriously. Perhaps for others it wouldn’t. We aren’t going to agree on that as it’s objective. What one person sees as a threat another might not. Personally I would’ve passed that information onto the professional treating her.

I don’t actually have any strong opinions on LC. I’ve repeatedly said her actions were wrong. However, they didn’t happen in a vacuum. There were multiple missed opportunities. Her ex husband has defended her. Her in/laws have defended her. Her family have defended her. Medical professionals treating her admitted wrong-doing. Just because I recognise that doesn’t mean I support a child killer. What I support is exposing flaws in the system around her because, if they aren’t addressed, more children will die. I support proper postnatal support and I support the law.