Lindsay Clancy case: was it evil, or severe mental illness?

She didn't jump out of the window.
She dangled out and slid down the wall.

She slit her own wrists and jumped out of the window afterwards which is why she is now paralysed in a wheelchair. This was obviously a mental breakdown.

I do still think she should go to jail or a mental health facility though.

You can’t see the good in people becoming more aware of the symptoms surrounding postpartum depression/psychosis? You don’t think greater awareness of it could save lives? We know from academic studies that women are not taken as seriously as men when it comes to reporting mental illness or even physical pain. If anything this case has shown what can happen when mental illness is not managed properly and that could save lives.

Not necessarily, plenty of people are saying that mental illness is being used as an excuse and that she planned it carefully before committing the act. That isn’t my thoughts, but many others think that.

One thing that I’ve been thinking about, and not sure if people have any thoughts on this, is this sort of case has happened countless times - a mother experiencing postpartum depression/psychosis has harmed herself and/or her children. I do wonder if one of the reasons that this case in particular has garnered so much attention is that it’s a middle-class, well educated white woman on the line. I do wonder if empathy would’ve been the same if it was a working class ethnic minority. It’s a bit like the Madeleine McCann case. Plenty of kids go missing but none generated as much interested as this little blonde girl who had doctor parents. I think it’s a good thing that the world is learning more about postpartum depression/psychosis but it also makes me sad that it’s taken this long.

Isn't this what he tells us? We are taking his word for it? There are far far too many inconsistencies in his story.

I know there’s some conspiracy theory going around that her husband did it. I think a minority think that based on very little evidence. I certainly haven’t seen anything convincing that would suggest her husband did it and I’ve watched a fair bit of the trial. But there’s always going to be the odd conspiracy theory with these sorts of things.

It’s similar to this country. In the U.K. manslaughter by diminished responsibility is a partial defence that reduces a murder charge to manslaughter on the basis of a recognised medical condition.

The defence have to satisfy the court of 4 elements:

Abnormal mental functioning
Medical condition + diagnosis
Substantial impairment (ie ability to understand conduct, make rational decisions, exercise self-control)
Causal link (ie condition has to be significant factor contributing to the death/s)

you do realise don't you that unfortunately some HCPs may be covering their tracks and also that when someone has severe mental ill health, coordination of their care in a fragmented health care system is extremely difficult. I certainly would not want to read a wiki page on this case, they are not reliable at all.

Again, please anyone who sees this thread, please read and share this
https://www.app-network.org/postpartum-psychosis-in-the-media/responsible-reporting-on-suicide-infanticide-and-intrusive-thoughts-linked-to-postpartum-psychosis/

"I don’t think there’s an argument that she’s innocent, and nobody is saying that"

Most people aren't but there are literally multiple posts on Mumsnet saying she didn't do it/ has been framed etc.

I missed your point that anxiety and depression are excluded, apologies.

So are you saying that under Massachusetts Law if someone has a diagnosis of post partum depression they must automatically be found not guilty of any crime, whatever the degree of the depression, the nature of the crime, their state of mind, the treatment they are on etc? If this is the case then in my view, that is crazy.

As to “It doesn’t matter whether you agree with it or not, the law is the law” , we’re not in a court, we’re having a discussion on MN.

How did you get to anyone with PPD must be found not guilty? Firstly the assertion is that LC was psychotic, not depressed. And responsibility and intent are much more nuanced under the law

Yes, this. People have drawn a hard line between people who want to see LC go down and those that don’t, but it’s much more complicated than that. I almost fainted listening to the autopsy reports of the children. When the Officer was describing where and how he found the children’s bodies I felt a deep and profound upset. Nobody thinks killing children is OK, but sometimes you have to separate the emotion from the law. I can’t see any way that LC can be prosecuted under Massachusetts Law. The 11 jurors knew that and were in fact told that they needed to think about the legal basis for it before anything.

I think the other parallel we are seeing is how people (including prosecutors sometimes) turn respect/empathy for the victims as a reason to convict (or to decry those who question a conviction). Yes these deaths are terrible - no one is disputing that - but that is not actually pertinent to the question of a defendant's guilt.