Rubbish holiday guest

@BeardySchnauzer that sounds very reasonable,and very true, there's only a year between the boys but her DBs son sounds like a much younger DC.

Actually I interpret the ‘boys are a lot’ differently

they have an older daughter who is ‘easy’ so they patted themselves on the back and thought what wonderful parents they are. Then devil child appeared and they are out of their depth. They are in denial that it is a parenting issue as I focussing on the thing that differentiates the younger child from the older gives them an excuse

given OP has a son one year older perhaps it would have been worth pointing out that no, boys aren’t all ‘a lot’ and they need to take a good hard look at themselves and their parenting

Not a parent, so feel free to ignore me,but the whole trouble starts with your DB and his words " boys are a lot" , he's excusing all his bad behaviour just because he's a boy. Of course they were put out when you kept your DD away from him, they think he's fine and doing nothing wrong.
No more family holidays with them Op, you'll have a much better time

Exactly this, I wouldn’t have allowed a 2nd incident. He sounds awful, which is a terrible thing to say about a 4 year old, but possibly a result of ‘gentle parenting’? Your brother sounds distinctly lacking.

So sorry you and your DD had such a horrid time with this child. This isn’t usual behaviour for a 4 year old. It’s the behaviour of a child who is being brought up with no boundaries, structure, accountability. There is no excuse for his behaviour but the way his parents have behaved suggest it is due to poor parenting. All kids may lash out, struggle to share etc but these behaviours are modelled by caregivers. This child doesn’t appear to have this so is bullying your DD relentlessly. It’s hard to deal with as their parenting style is so different to yours. A friend of mine has the same, and as such don’t see the brother, SIL, DN much. It all came to a head on a multi generational holiday for them as well. We met the child and parents at a party and can say the behaviour and parenting was very much like what you describe. parents won’t have any of it. I would be distancing myself from them. Be prepared that they are not going to like what you have to say but know that all the wider family will have witnessed what the child is like.

It's legal in England.

I'm not usually one to mention additional needs, too many use it as an excuse for poor behaviour, but the licking and spitting are setting alarm bells ringing. Either your nephew is very badly behaved or he is ND and your DB needs to get to the bottom of it. ND is not an excuse for this behaviour, it may be a reason but it's not an excuse.

In the meanwhile, protect yourselves, you have done nothing wrong and I agree with taking the sorrow not anger route with your brother whilst avoiding meetings until your DPs can see an improvement.

You can lift the badly behaved child away to protect the younger child - every time

no talk of “kind hands” just take stuff off him then lift him away - into the arms of his parents saying “he’s misbehaving “

Well it didn’t stop after one incident did it?

So someone didn’t stop it from happening to a tiny child again. and again. and again. over several days.

If there was a massive aggressive dog around your child, you’d not rely on the dog owner would you? You’d rely on yourself to protect your child.

"OP you say that you tried to protect your DD. But you need to accept that you failed abysmally. I feel so sad for that poor little girl. Bullied and her own parents let it happen."

It's like you were there yourself. 🙄

Good grief, how on earth is violence towards a child going to teach a child that violence is wrong? It’s modelling the very behaviour you’re trying to stop. Barbaric.

OP you say that you tried to protect your DD. But you need to accept that you failed abysmally. I feel so sad for that poor little girl. Bullied and her own parents let it happen.

Going forward you need to be much more firm, and tell your brother straight that you won’t be seeing them for the foreseeable future while your nephew’s behaviour remains so bad.

What a little horror.
I wonder if his parents will discuss it between themselves? Or if your parents have said anything to them?

A thoroughly spanked backside would have nipped this in the bud once upon a time but thats not legal anymore so everyone else has to suffer brattish behaviour 🤨 if this child behaved like that towards my child he would be lucky to not get his head knocked off

I feel so sad for your baby girl reading this. The spitting and holding her nostrils closed is disturbing.

I would have told the boy off myself, asked my brother if he was going to do something and if he thought it was acceptable behaviour, and if he'd laughed I would probably have exploded. Then I would have booked to stay somewhere else or flights home.

Just ignore the posts about your disciplining on holiday as that’s in the past anyway

what was the point of your thread?

if it was just to check if your nephews behaviour is normal then obviously neither his or his parents behaved in a normal way

i wouldn’t sever ties but would tell him he failed miserably as a parent on that holiday and it’s best to keep the kids apart u til his son has learnt that the behaviour he showed is unacceptable.

This thread was quite upsetting to read even as an outsider.

It’s bound to become the point of the thread whether you acted to protect her because you don’t really mention it at all in your OP. And it’s seems baffling that he could have managed so many incidents if he was being physically stopped as he should have been.

But to answer your specific question - no it’s not normal at all

Yes I've read the thread. I agree the nephews parents and the nephews behaviour are the problem but OPs daughter was screaming when she was in a communal area and he was present and she spent most of her week indoors with her mum. OP's attempts to mitigate the nephews behaviour were unsuccessful because she wasn't firm enough. Trying to wedge her children between her and her husband and then letting the nephew pull up a chair and try to squeeze in seems a bit pointless.

I would add that whether it was normal or not doesn't alter the fact it was unacceptable and caused her daughter a great deal of distress.

It sounds like you want an apology from brother. You deserve one. Their child’s behaviour and worse, their own as completely useless parents, is entirely unreasonable and rude.
I would make very clear that unless brother can assure you that the child will behave appropriately you will not be joining family meals or holidays etc and/or plan some strategies for those occasions… who sits next to who, rooms to escape to, but ultimately saying firmly and clearly ‘are you looking after dn now’ on rinse and repeat til his parents get the message….

Best advice on this thread.

I had a friend whose child would target my child. It was relentless. I had 2 under 2 so trying to look after them and keep this child away from mine was impossible. It is not as simple as it sounds. If I told the child off, they would go crying to mum. If I moved my child he followed. Mum was oblivious and if challenged made excuses or blamed other children. The only solution was to never meet up with this child. School has not gone well and they are violent towards mum. Whole situation is desperately sad.

Ignore the people criticising you. What are you planning to do in the future? Are you due to meet up with them any time soon?

OP, unfortunately when you offload on mumsnet, lots of posters take the opportunity to pick someone apart and administer a shredding. They think that vilifying you elevates them.
You can't detail a blow by blow account of every exchange you had about this over the course of a week. People are just determined to find fault for their own purposes.
Don't get into it with them.

Somebody else was taking the boy off and keeping him away - OP's dad. Have you not read the thread? OP spoke to her nephew and brother multiple times and attempted to correct her nephew's behaviour with zero backup from the parents. When the brother tried to minimise things, OP's dad backed her up.

OP is not the problem here! The problem is her nephew's parents who are, unfortunately, close relatives - which makes everything harder especially when you are trapped in close quarters with them for two weeks.

I am sure OP has had plenty of input by now to know that this wasn't normal behaviour, which was her actual question. Hopefully she's got a plan of action and will not allow anything similar to happen in future.

So why didn't you have a strong onversation with them then about how unnaceptable not only was their sons behaviour but their lack of action regarding it?