School lateness punishments, neurodiversity and the law

Nah if they try and fail then we encourage them to try again.

A bit like any other skill it takes a while to master and we do not tell kids to try things once and then give up.

Maybe you do....

If a child can't ride a bike on their first attempt do you tell them to give up and say nah they can't do it or do you give them little steps at a time like balancing, then peddling, then going down hills, going up hills, going round a corner....all the time encouraging them to develop that skill further until they master it?

Or do you let them stop at the first hurdle and then tell them they can't do it so never will and tell them they will never manage anything and to give up?

So you tell kids who need wheelchairs to go without. Nice! Not actually legal and “we” don’t need to tell disabled ND children any such thing not least because to do so is hugely damaging and not the right way to handle neurodiversity.

Nah if they try and fail then we encourage them to try again.

A bit like any other skill it takes a while to master and we do not tell kids to try things once and then give up.

Maybe you do....

If a child can't ride a bike on their first attempt do you tell them to give up and say nah they can't do it or do you give them little steps at a time like balancing, then peddling, then going down hills, going up hills, going round a corner....all the time encouraging them to develop that skill further until they master it?

Or do you let them stop at the first hurdle and then tell them they can't do it so never will and tell them they will never manage anything and to give up?

And if the child tries but fails to get up the ramp do you shrug your shoulders and walk on or do you stop to help?

Because here is a child who is struggling.

No one is telling a ND to do that.

This is like a child sitting at the bottom of a ramp in a wheelchair saying I am in a chair I need someone to take me into school as I cannot try and use my own arms to push my chair up the ramp.....

That is what the issue is.....

By all means if you think a child in a wheelchair should never be taught how to self propel their chair and always rely on others to push them then that is on you.

No one is telling a ND to do that.

This is like a child sitting at the bottom of a ramp in a wheelchair saying I am in a chair I need someone to take me into school as I cannot try and use my own arms to push my chair up the ramp.....

That is what the issue is.....

By all means if you think a child in a wheelchair should never be taught how to self propel their chair and always rely on others to push them then that is on you.

The fact is, reasonable adjustments have to be reasonable. What if one of the pupils in class is ND and finds her attending late difficult? How do you balance those two? Both are as a result of the same issue, and looking at it as who trumps who is not helpful. The reality is that, in the workplace (which secondary school is meant to prepare you for) there has to be a line drawn. I’ve spent all day supporting a ND student who, frankly, should have been told this is the wrong career for them. It isn’t unkind to prevent someone spending £100,000+ on a path to nowhere. Any more than it’s unkind to expect one person’s needs to be tipping everyone else’s. She either needs to manage it, or be somewhere where it can be managed without harming those around her.

ND is a protected disability the same as visible disabilities. ND children have the same rights for reasonable adjustments as those who need wheelchairs. You wouldn’t tell a child using a wheelchair to make do without it so telling a ND child to make do without the support they need is not only ableist but hugely offensive.

The fact is, reasonable adjustments have to be reasonable. What if one of the pupils in class is ND and finds her attending late difficult? How do you balance those two? Both are as a result of the same issue, and looking at it as who trumps who is not helpful. The reality is that, in the workplace (which secondary school is meant to prepare you for) there has to be a line drawn. I’ve spent all day supporting a ND student who, frankly, should have been told this is the wrong career for them. It isn’t unkind to prevent someone spending £100,000+ on a path to nowhere. Any more than it’s unkind to expect one person’s needs to be tipping everyone else’s. She either needs to manage it, or be somewhere where it can be managed without harming those around her.

The fact is, reasonable adjustments have to be reasonable. What if one of the pupils in class is ND and finds her attending late difficult? How do you balance those two? Both are as a result of the same issue, and looking at it as who trumps who is not helpful. The reality is that, in the workplace (which secondary school is meant to prepare you for) there has to be a line drawn. I’ve spent all day supporting a ND student who, frankly, should have been told this is the wrong career for them. It isn’t unkind to prevent someone spending £100,000+ on a path to nowhere. Any more than it’s unkind to expect one person’s needs to be tipping everyone else’s. She either needs to manage it, or be somewhere where it can be managed without harming those around her.

I really adhere to the ‘fake it til you make it’ mantra, in so many aspects of life. My ND has learned to cope by pretending she’s coping. Then though she has tough days most of the day she’s actually coping. Hiding away behind excuses helps no one.

THIS!!

My goodness me now we are saying the solution to feeling overwhelmed is to fucking mask!!!

That's what so many people particularly girls did in the past and why so many of us have crippling anxiety sress and depression. Read the research , masking is managing.

"Faking it till you make it" is storing up mental health problems for the future.

And would we ask a person with 2 broken legs to fake walking or expect adjustments to be made ffs!!!

No but the helplessness is getting to a breaking point. The 5 minutes grace is a reasonable adjustment, it just so happens that this is extended to everyone.

Is this parent speaking to the child about ‘hiding where it is calm’ close to the next classroom? Mapping a route? Looking for pinch points? Or just telling the child that school is discriminating and getting angry?
This isn’t something schools have capacity to do for so many children. The easiest adjustments need to be made first before it is escalated, that way the ‘leaving a minute early’ is only used by those they really need it, otherwise half the school is in the corridors at that time and it defeats the point of the adjustment.

Life is about taking responsibility for putting strategies in place. The same goes for all disabilities, obviously things like ramps for a wheelchair are very clear. With neurodiversity it is nuanced.

Im sorry if the parent has done all these things and just didn’t mention them.
but it seemed from the post she has jumped straight to ‘school needs sort this out’ where there is responsibility elsewhere. Schools simply do not have capacity and we can either stamp our feet about it or live in the real world where we have to be part of the solution.

One of the best posts on here.

Obviously not every disability can be dealt with in this way but refreshing to come across a poster who recognises that she alone has the power to determine the quality of life she leads.

You don’t speak for all either. For some it’s an extremely useful mantra. I spent many years with clinical depression. I was lucky at the time that I didn’t have any other option than to get out of bed every day, slap a fake smile on my face and head to work. It got me chatting to others, made me think of something other than the best way to end my life. There were only 13 days in 7 years of depression when I couldn’t face work.

Giving depressed people benefits to sit at home all day seems actively cruel to me.

You don’t speak for all either. For some it’s an extremely useful mantra. I spent many years with clinical depression. I was lucky at the time that I didn’t have any other option than to get out of bed every day, slap a fake smile on my face and head to work. It got me chatting to others, made me think of something other than the best way to end my life. There were only 13 days in 7 years of depression when I couldn’t face work.

Giving depressed people benefits to sit at home all day seems actively cruel to me.

I really adhere to the ‘fake it til you make it’ mantra, in so many aspects of life. My ND has learned to cope by pretending she’s coping. Then though she has tough days most of the day she’s actually coping. Hiding away behind excuses helps no one.

I disagree.

She actually appearing to cope
Lots of ND girls in particular are experts at looking like the are coping (this is called masking ).
They are great at acting the part but this comes at a hidden cost that you can't see but the ND individual is experiencing

This can go on for a very long time until they just can not keep the mask in place anymore. At best this is a burnout at worst they will be suicidal

Even the best case scenario will result in burnout and mental health issues.
The longer someone masks for without support and downtime the bigger the crash when they eventually crumble and the longer the recovery.