School lateness punishments, neurodiversity and the law

While I agree there should be more consideration into letting her leave lessons early, there also needs to be more discussion with your daughter over exactly where she is going and whether she is alone during these moments she disappears.

Sadly with a lot of children any adaptions that schools put in place are misused and a minority then spoil it for those who genuinely need it.
If they allow your DD to leave early, what happens if she then becomes overwhelmed that she is out of class early and might get told off for that? Or she is arriving early at the next class but the previous class are still there so she has to stand there and wait and then doesn't like the rush of them all leaving. She then decides this causes anxiety too, so wants a friend to go with her. Next thing you know you have multiple groups of students who all have permission to leave early and are all merrily chatting as they wander around, disrupting others still in classrooms.

Yes you do need to support her and back her up with the school, but I do think questions need to be raised over how she manages to wander the corridors ok to get outside and what she does when there. I am surprised that no one is trying to move her on from being outside (whether that is alone, or especially if she is with a group of others).

This thread is just another example of how enormous state schools can’t meet the needs of all children. In OP’s DD’s case it sounds like the school absolutely could meet her needs but currently actively isn’t. In many other children’s cases their needs simply can’t be met in this type of environment. If only Bridget Phillipson and her supporters would one day realise this, rather than trying to shove even more disabled children into this type of environment.

Not to derail the thread but have you sought an EHCP for your daughter? You can apply for it yourself (there's a support thread in Education/SEN on here). Do not assume that the primary will help you with the transition to secondary. I work in an inclusive secondary and we would add a child like yours to enhanced transition (although it's mostly happened already...)

It’s all very well everyone chipping in with just follow the crowds to the next lessons but it’s not practical. How many are in the school cohort? At secondary it’s likely to be 1,000+ all moving at the same time. That’s overwhelming for anyone - I work in a school, I avoid lesson change over time.

If she’s 14 I’d be pursuing a private diagnosis so her needs are fully understood before GCSE’s. In the meantime I would look for infomation on the condition you believe she has and make a list of the struggles she has, she won’t necessarily have them all and she will have some from other conditions as they all coexist. Have DD write a statement on how she feels, where she hides, etc. Then write to the SENDCo, head of year, registration teacher and pastoral and ask for a meeting to discuss how the school can help manage her overwhelm. Give them X days to reply before raising it to the head and then the board of governors. I don’t see how letting her out 2 minutes before lesson ends is any different to issuing her with a toilet pass. Good luck.

It is. Children with adhd and autism are born with both in the same way children with physical difficulties are born with their disabilities. You can’t learn or punish away disabilities and all are legally entitled to reasonable adjustments which other schools up and down the country are successfully providing.

Learning skills does not mean you can eradicate disabilities hence them being disabilities. Like more visable disabilities ND varies hugely and what helps/ works for some won’t for others . Said disabilities are there for life however inconvenient that is for some. To enable ND kids to achieve they need and are entitled to support and reasonable adjustments.

One of my ND children has attended both types of school. The totally inflexible state school devoid of reasonable adjustments or support lead to self harm and her attempting to take her own life. The amazing state school with far less resources but one that had a superb SENCO and staff who provided reasonable adjustments and support enabled my child to leave with amazing qualifications that will enable her to gain further qualifications and get into work. We’ve had superb provision from unis and quite impressive places of work for placements as regards reasonable adjustments and meeting the needs of ND for all my dc all of which are either in uni or work.Unis and places of work can and do offer crucial reasonable adjustments( bizarrely better than some schools)that can keep ND people off benefits and in work.

All children are entitled to an education and many schools up and down the country are successfully accommodating ND children. When the SEND changes come in those that are not will need to change.

Do you mean strategies like the suggested Loops? a perfectly acceptable strategy to cope with the noise yet OP has been told her dd can't use them. A strategy like leaving a minute early, a perfectly acceptable strategy that's implemented by schools all over the country as a RA for SEND children to move to their next class before the corridors get too crowded, but has been told no? What strategies do you suggest practising at home that will magic away the overwhelm of noisy, crowded corridors in school?

Then you find a job that can accommodate it if you know timekeeping is difficult for whatever reason.

It’s a lot easier to do that as an adult than it is for schoolchildren.

Bit it’s still the case that in some businesses and some jobs that you cannot accommodate people being late; it’s no a reasonable adjustment that the business can provide.

Gosh this sounds like it could be my DD in a couple years… she is already experiencing overwhelm, anxiety, lateness and school refusal in Y6.
It is so awful as a parent to try to help someone who simply seems to be stuck , their brains just get stuck in a loop and they can’t escape.

Ignore the bitchy posters who have no clue.

I’m just really sorry that the school are so unsupportive - you either need to leave or report them to the Board of Governers, they must have some sort of SEN Policy…?

Also research your local council for help as there may be parental courses etc for help

The school does have to agree to the strategies, though - OP can’t unilaterally implement them. And it sounds like everything she’s suggested has been rejected by the school, but they aren’t suggesting what might be acceptable to them as an alternative.

I don’t think anyone is saying that all ND kids can’t learn new skills (not all people can learn every skill, of course). But they may need to do things a different way from other people, and this should be facilitated by the school.

I have dyslexia, among other things, and part of my job is producing briefings. I use speech to text software to do that most of the time. Colleagues without dyslexia don’t have access to this software - they type their briefings. But the end result is the same - why does it matter that the production method is different?

That's a stupid example..a child in a wheelchair will either be able to self propel or not depending on many factors.

School have refused ear defender type adjustments.

So this would be the same as expecting a child to self propel in a wheelchair without self propelled wheels and then punishing them for being unable to self propel and banning them using a different chair which they could self propel

@VividDenimTiger you might want to re-post on the SEN board. The replies will be more helpful and less judgmental. 🩷
People do like to kick a struggling parent on AIBU. 😵‍💫

A private full assessment costs £5-6k

Ermm yes they have. They have said that they want the school to do it all and many saying on here that kids with ND cannot learn these skills and it is on a par with telling a child in a wheelchair to learn to walk...

did you miss that?

Such a good post. ❤️

Gah - this thread has become really nasty. Just wanting to express solidarity with OP who has given absolutely no evidence of not wanting to help her child. She has in contrast shown how hard she is trying to support a child who is struggling massively with everyday life. Disgusting to start in with these digs on her parenting, honestly - what drives this sort of behaviour regardless of how you feel about levels of SEN support in schools?!

One thing I keep coming back to in all the noise on this is my conviction that absolutely no teen wants to stand out negatively from peers or to struggle with things other kids find easy. All these ‘perks’ people are begrudging ND kids are the very last thing they want. My son is desperate to fit in, be like his friends, access his education and not feel scared and overwhelmed. He has done more fighting and shown more resilience in just an ordinary week at school than most grown-ups I know. My DS would love to not need any supports.

But he cannot help how his brain works any more than a diabetic kid can start making their own insulin just by eating a sugary diet. In the wheelchair / ramp analogy, he’s just, at the age of 12, realised that he’s wheelchair bound and unable to keep up with his friends. He needs understanding that this is hard and then a bit of training and physio to get strong enough to control his chair. That is something he should be able to access while attending school with his peer group without anyone making ignorant assumptions about him (or how he has been parented).

There is a staggering amount of ignorance on here as regards what is ND and how to manage it. Also seem to be some posters who think they know better than professionals and experts who deal with ND children on a daily basis .

Such as?

Without a ramp, kids in wheelchairs will be stuck. This child has no ramp let alone a wheelchair.

“Telling kids who are ND that they will never be able to achieve a skill and never encouraging them to try or giving them to tools and support to try is disabling them. Telling them to give up as their needs means they cannot ever do things is wrong.”

Literally nobody has suggested that. That is not what reasonable adjustments are meant for or do.

Oh, there are some things you approve accommodations for then? Good to know.

It sounded like you were trying to cover your error with bluster, glad we've cleared that up.

She can do things herself at the weekends and evenings to help her child. Lots of strategies can be practised at home with parents and then applied at school once the child is comfortable and showing success in the home situation. But then the parent needs to want to help their child themselves and want to put that time and effort in.

She has highlighted how she has battled and things she has suggested. The child is away at school 8 hours, there is practically very little she can do during that time as she isn’t there. Handing her a laminated timetable and leaving a child so distressed she’s had therapy and hides outside to sort it herself is a sure fire way to MH struggles and dangerous coping strategies.