School lateness punishments, neurodiversity and the law

ND family here so completely get it and my DD came out of MS school at 12. Things that helped before she left - she had an early exit card from lessons, and left end of school day 5mins early. This was counted balanced by going in 20mins early for send breakfast club and registration in quiet room with other send kids. She could wear the clear musicians ear plugs (no one noticed) they reduced noise but she could still hear teacher in quiet classroom. Sensory breaks daily so reduced timetable they removed a couple of lessons in subjects she was never going to take at gcse level (French & history in her case). You can ask for “Reasonable Adjustments” for send needs. My DD is far far happier home Ed and taking GCSE’s early as she actually chooses to learn now she’s in a quieter calmer environment.

I wonder if because there is no support in lessons she’s holding it all together each lesson by the skin of her teeth and then gets overwhelmed on leaving, tries to find somewhere quiet for 2 seconds or a quieter route , gets confused re routes, needs the loo or to just be alone.

Unpick it as the more evidence you have the better. I’d gently ask if there are any bullying issues too.

I didn’t speak for all. I shared my experience which isn’t irrelevant and is a totally normal way to respond, before going onto talk more broadly and ask questions. Of course girls’ psychology is hugely complex and no one’s speaks for another’s. It seems daft to have to state that among people who’ve dealt with their ND DC and making it work in the system.

This is a really good point. 10 minutes into lessons here the corridors are totally empty. Most of the time, 3 minutes into lesson changeover they're empty, so how is she being late if it is the busyness of the corridors?

There will already be a time allowed for changeover, usually around 5 minutes. Then there's the additional 5 minutes grace. I'm sorry but I just don't understand how it's taking her more than 10 minutes to walk from one room to another, she's obviously doing something else instead.

The school cannot allow her extra time. There are several ND students in each class and they will all be entitled to the same. It'll be absolute chaos for the teachers.

Especially given you don't have a diagnosis so technically any teenager who feels like they're missing out on something, will be able to self diagnose and demand the same. It just won't work.

Have a look at what’s causing her anxiety here, no one’s picking up on that. Plenty of issues here but she’s going to need to work through it and she can with ADHD, Autism however different story

What strategies has she tried to help herself?

if she is getting over whelmed then could she try sticking some loop ear phones in or some ear defenders on to help counter some of the sensory input from the noise?

could she identify a friend from each lesson who is going to the same next lessson as her and stay with them?

im not unsympathetic to her struggles but as a parent the best thing you can do now is help her find the best ways for her to manage things. There are always going to be times when she needs to be on time, and there are always going to be times places are busy so the key is giving her a tool bank to deal with it as best as she can

So have you found out exactly what your DD is doing once the lesson ends and she should be moving on to the next one? You haven’t answered that yet?

When I worked in a school with neurodiverse children the most common difficulty was the corridors in between lessons which became so crowded the children became so anxious and overwhelmed . I taught them strategies to cope like having a figit toy in their pocket , practicing breathing exercises and counting doors (distraction from anxious thoughts ) . Also asking teachers if they could leave a couple of minutes early to get to the next lesson without the crush . I also held a quiet room at lunchtime so they could regulate . I’m an occupational therapist by profession but the school didn’t get it , prioritise this support, so much needed for the children , so I sadly left . The new rules about attendance are very punishing for children with neurodiversity . However at the same time as a parent, I would work hard on skills to manage being overwhelmed in crowded areas as this will help throughout life

It does as because your son’s adhd does not speak for all . It’s hugely complex with girls, can present very differently , is often hidden( sometime catastrophically so) and girls are often overlooked due to the presentation being very different and hugely let down in the lead up to and the diagnosis process.

It's not good to armchair diagnose but I'd be considering dyspraxia/DCD as well with the exec functioning challenges (that can be a quicker referral also). It's no good saying to a child that isn't managing 'just do it quicker' - it's not going to work, is it? OP isn't actually in the school every day.

I'd imagine this is just one part of a wider issue. It's really common to have an early leave pass- DD has one and also an early lunch pass. If a teacher can't manage a child leaving a couple of minutes early I'd be a bit worried about their classroom skills (and she'll be getting to the next lesson on time). The new Ofsted framework focuses so heavily on inclusion one would have though it would sharpen the minds of school leadership.

Has she tried something like loop earplugs to cut down on the noise?

It would be approx £3k for both privately but you need to find somewhere good.I know it’s absolutely not ok to have to spend that amount but could you afford that?

I think I’d be emailing the SENCO and cc in the governor responsible for send so it’s in writing that they should be supporting according to need, the wait you are stuck with for diagnosis, your daughter’s right to an education, the need for her to be supported and the clear likelihood she is being discriminated against. Autism is a protected disability. They should be providing reasonable adjustments. Have they offered any kind of support? You need to try and unpick it with your daughter too as it will help.

Obviously. That’s a given. It doesn’t negate my points.

Look into getting her privately assessed if at all poss. We were on the list for 3 years but saved and got it done privately within 6 months. It didn’t cost the earth and was transformative. If she’s at the point of school refusal nothing is more important than getting this addressed. As pp says you ntk if it is adhd or asd or something else, and get the right strategies and tools for her well in advance of GCSEs. Now’s the time to get her the help she needs.

What has your doctor actually done? There are assessments then the ridiculous wait for diagnosis. This is the process in my authority. The first four are done quickly. The long wait is for the final point. Ive pasted it here so you might be able to go back to the gp and find out what stage you are at. But your child mostly needs strategies to get to class on time.

The process generally begins when concerns are identified by parents, school staff, nursery staff, a health visitor, or a GP who notice difficulties with attention, hyperactivity, communication, social interaction, sensory processing, or related developmental issues.

A referral is then made by a professional such as a GP, school nurse, paediatrician, SENCO, health visitor, therapist, psychologist, or social worker. Parents are not usually able to self-refer directly.

Once the referral is received, it is reviewed through a triage process to determine whether the child meets the criteria for the neurodevelopmental pathway. At this stage, additional information may be requested from both the child's school and parents.

If the referral is accepted, the child undergoes an assessment. For autism and ADHD, this is typically a multidisciplinary assessment involving a detailed developmental history from parents or carers, information gathered from the child's school or nursery, observation of the child, questionnaires and structured assessment tools, and a medical and developmental review by clinicians.

Following the assessment, an outcome appointment is held where the team discusses the findings and determines whether the child meets the diagnostic criteria for ADHD, autism, both conditions, or neither. A written report is usually provided, along with recommendations for school support, SEND processes, and any further services that may be beneficial.

5 mins is plenty of time to get between lessons and most students get there quicker. What on earth is she needing to organise? Print out and laminate a copy or her timetable and attach it to her pencil case so she always knows where she is going next.

ADHD can present very differently in girls and can vary from person to person.

The waiting list for diagnosis is just terrible for young people - is there any way you could pay to go private for this? It might be worth looking into if it’s having this much effect.

The school would surely be reporting that and all the other kids would be in the same late rooms as punishment.

It’s not ok for the school to act this way op.They should be responding to need not diagnosis. I’d ask for a meeting with the SENCO. Have you considered autism too as they can often go together. That said you can get overwhelm with adhd too.

All kids get packed up in class ready to leave when the bell goes.
Once the bell goes, off they go to to the next class. If she remained with her friends going to the next class, she will arrive with them on time.

You need to find out from her what is happening between her leaving one class and arriving at the next.
Is she cruising the corridors?
Hiding in the toilets?
Going to learning support with the excuse she needs to talk to someone?

Something that she is doing is preventing her arriving in a timely manner. You need to find out that something is and unpick why she is doing it.

If she is persistently late, she will be persistently punished. It is due to children arriving late that they have to implement this sort of policy. If it was the odd child here and there, they would suck it up.

A minute early probably won't make much difference, and 5 minutes early means she misses a lot of learning time over the year.

She could go outside for 1 minute and then go back in as corridors quieten.