School lateness punishments, neurodiversity and the law

So many see it as just a walk to another lesson, and for many it is but she is obviously not able to do it and get there on time and as a consequence she is missing out on education. The punishment is not working and really missing a lesson because you are late if you think about it is really silly. This is what worries me though the government want more children in school and for schools to 'deal' with SEN rather than get EHCP etc.. yet this is a prime example of schools getting it wrong. They need to understand what is going on to make her late and work with her to improve her time keeping, this might be a gradual process but getting her to miss education really isn't the solution. Sadly with the lack of support staff this type of problem that could be solved just ends up into something bigger.

My eldest has ADHD and her school has consequences for lateness. I support them with that even though I know my DD’s diagnosis puts her at a disadvantage. She ultimately needs to learn to be on time in life, so I’m not upset about her facing consequences. However, her school uses escalating levels of detentions, excluding a child from a class seems absolute madness. I would be supportive of consequences for lateness but not THAT consequence.

Have the school done any testing?

Also, if you are three years in, go private.

I have adhd. You are being unreasonable. Your DDs adhd is not more important than other students rights to disruption free education. If school starts at 8.30 and Sue needs to leave at 8.15, you need to get her out the door at 7.50 and tell her she has to be at school for 8.15 and she gets a reward for every day she does it. The easiest way to hack adhd is to gamify it and include rewards and/or a competitive element.

she needs to distract herself from her own anxiety

Fidget toys/squidhy/clicker etc she needs one in each hand to walk between classes - she can hide them in her pocket and do it

give her a tongue twister like sea shells or Peter pepper that she needs to say on her mind while walking between classes

a mint- tell her to sneak a mint in her mouth when the bell goes and to aim to have it disappeared before she gets to the next lesson

Calming patches or roll on anxiety oil

when the bell goes tell her to take a deep breath, to touch something, look at something, listen to something , smell something and put the mint in. - it’s called grounding techniques of your not aware. Have a look online

tell her to try these for a few weeks and see if there is any improvement

at home the things you need to do are a solid routine, good diet
, lots of water, yoga on YouTube, have bedsheets and pyjamas that make her feel calm some kids like fluffy ones some like weighted blankets. Lavender in every room. Reward chart and everyday do a run down of things she enjoyed and things she didn’t enjoy that day and talk through them

It seems that the OP doesn’t want to be part of the solution, just to say how shit the school is.

I suppose people do need to be able to vent on here, but it’s likely that she’s going to also have to work with her daughter on how to at least ameliorate the issue.

One theory I read is that because kids now spend so much time alone on phones, not out and about, they can’t cope with transitions in real life.

Teens can benefit from a mild sort of “exposure therapy”.

I would be insisting that dd comes with me to the supermarket (start early say 8am Saturday) then build up to going at 11am when it’s frantic. Take her to a busy shopping centre, a packed out pool session or gym class, a city centre, a train or coach station at rush hour and so on. Get her to do the navigation, in a situation where you are there to support her

And get her off her phone!!!!

Teacher - also autistic (diagnosed years ago)

Firstly, schools don't want conflict with parents because that escalates things.

Persistent lateness is an issue. This is how it works in a classroom:

1. Get kids in and sitting down
2. Date, title, recall /settling task of some kind
3. While they're doing that, take the register
4. If anyone's missing and you can see present marks for them in other lessons, send an email to oncall
5. Oncall then have to go looking for the child - safeguarding
6. Child arrives once you've started teaching, have to stop teaching, reopen the register, amend as necessary
7. Child doesn't know what the lesson is about (no date or title in their books) so you have to go back over that otherwise they can't engage

In other words, it's not teachers being awkward, instead it's about having strong routines which, every bit of research shows, is better for kids with autism and ADHD. So lateness is actually working against your DD.

There's also the related problem of where exactly they're hiding to escape the overwhelm. If it's the toilet, then yes, school is going to take a dim view of a pupil who routinely, between lessons, goes and hides in a cubicle. The reason for this is that the overwhelming majority are doing this to either access their phones or to vape / trade vapes - not saying this is what your DD is doing. The sanction is in place to prevent this, not to 'punish' ND students.

So, the way forward, a trial leave early pass, gives your daughter 3 minutes (or something like that) at the end of one lesson so that she's front of queue for the beginning of the next lesson. If she's still late, then the 'hiding to escape overwhelm' will have been tested. Presumably, you would be happy for this trial and to act on results? Speak to the SENCO. See how it goes for 2 weeks. That's not enormous problem for the school to manage.

It's really not unreasonable to expect a 14 year old (adhd or not) to get from one lesson to another on time. How on earth is your DD going to be able to cope with anything in life if she can't even walk down a corridor when she's meant to?! It's honestly quite infantilising to mollycoddle her and jump to the conclusion that she isn't capable of managing it. It's obviously great to make reasonable adjustments for children with needs but there is a fine line between making adjustments and instilling extremely entitled attitudes in children and learned helplessness. If your DD has the cognitive skills to attend a mainstream school I'd be very clear in telling her that she needs to get a grip and self-manage this tbh

It is so difficult now as there are so many ND kids. Honestly you’d be surprised at just how many need a time out card, an early movement card, a uniform card, a toilet card. I get it. Your dd is your only concern and rightly so. But I’m just trying to say that schools are absolutely overwhelmed right now trying to accommodate so many kids in a supportive and helpful well. The system is broken. It doesn’t work.

Yes, getting SENDIASS involved has made a big difference for us. The external pressure has finally opened a way for my child to receive more support and fewer punishments. In our case many teaching staff and the head of year were supportive anyway but SLT had been insisting on a discipline based approach, despite a complete lack of success with it over two years.

Teacher here. It sounds like she needs a 3 minute leave early pass to avoid busy corridors. If she is hiding outside between lessons, that is a very time-consuming round trip, and as others have said, it is genuinely disruptive to have students come in 5+ mins late, not just ‘annoying’ for teachers. Talk to HoY. Lots of students have leave early passes, regardless of diagnosis (I would revisit this btw - as others have said, schools should respond to need not disgnosis, and it seems unusual they’d say something different - a possible misunderstanding?). Missing the last 3 mins is far less disruptive to your DD’s learning that missing the first 5+ mins. Seems like a very simple solution.

The problem with this though other than the disruption if too many are given out it becomes pointless for those who really need it. Things like that should be a last resort not just an easy fix all.

Said NHS let my DS down and OP’s DD hence my suggestion. Campaign away but leave me alone thanks.

What have you suggested to stop her being overwhelmed?

Would asking a friend to walk with her work?

You say, you’ve been having these problems for three years, and the other school has a massive waiting list. Where are you on that waiting list? You must be near the top by now? I’d be chasing the new school.

They don’t bump boys up the list however as the NHS taskforce has identified boys are historically diagnosed with ADHD much quicker than girls, often diagnosed up to five years earlier. Said NHS taskforce highlights that women and girls have been massively underdiagnosed due to outdated clinical stereotypes that primarily look for disruptive, hyperactive behaviors in boys.

It doesn't work well for teachers or the other kids. It shortens every lesson by 5 mins or those leaving early miss out.

Young people these days have too many excuses and not enough resilience.

she needs a coping strategy, not an excuse.

she needs to work out HOW she can arrive on time. She has to solve this problem. Otherwise life and the world of work is going to be very tough.

Our school gives the autistic children, those with mobility issues with a 5 minute early
card. Meaning they leave classes 5 minutes early to get to their next one. This means they avoid the noise and crowds. This is applied to
go home too. It works well, all schools should have it.

It's not good to armchair diagnose but I'd be considering dyspraxia/DCD as well with the exec functioning challenges (that can be a quicker referral also). It's no good saying to a child that isn't managing 'just do it quicker' - it's not going to work, is it? OP isn't actually in the school every day.

I would try this. Where I am it is much cheaper to get DCD diagnosed privately by an OT. You won't be able to access medication if you want to try this route though and will still need ADHD diagnosis. If the organisation and planning is the biggest issue this would at least get support with that. Is she clumsy as well? How is her fine motor skills?

keep complaining. Escalate to governors. An early pass is easily accommodated in schools.

I know you shouldn't have to, but can you source and pay for an assessment yourself? It would be a lot quicker and then you can hold the school to account with a specific diagnosis. Also, if she has ADHD you can look at getting medication which helps a lot (I have an ADHD child and their behaviour has turned around overnight from it).

Basically at the moment, all the school have is you saying 'ADHD' with no evidence.

eta this is @frenchtoast

You seem to have got absurdly stuck on this and are now the one making sweeping and incorrect statements. My DS had issues for years, as long as the OP’s DD, and it was only recently he was ‘lucky’ to get diagnosed because we’d been on the list so long we cracked and gave up on lots of other things in order to pay for his diagnosis. They don’t bump boys up the list or give special consideration for them and it’s not some dream scenario compared to girls, even though I agree that diagnosis and presentation differs. Nor was be disruptive in class, he just got lost and left behind and was massively drowning. Which wasn’t lucky. But still, moving from one class to another he followed the class and got to the rooms, even though he could lose his way in most places, so my valid point and question which you miss out, is what else was she doing other than going to the next class. And OP later revealed she is in fact going outside for a minute, so my point/question was entirely justified and the fact she needs to go outside adds something to the understanding of what’s going on here. I don’t know what your problem is and i’ll leave the thread now before finding out because it’s too early for all this, but I hope the fact that I persisted and got the diagnosis and reasonable adjustments is some help to the OP, that this is worth doing if poss.