School lateness punishments, neurodiversity and the law

You need to focus on coping strategies. It’s very disruptive when children arrive late to class. The reality is that life won’t wait for her - trains, planes, appointments, friends. She needs to find what works for her to make her able to be on time. It’s not easy but she needs to find a way.

Does she have a friendship group that can help her?

Email the Senco and the headteacher and the governor responsible for SEND (details should be on their website) if she's on the right to choose then they should as a minimum be putting an IEP in place. There's adjustments they can make to minimise the effects, from small things like leaving slightly earlier, to making sure she has a 'buddy' during movement times, to the higher level of pastoral staff walking between lessons with a group. The code of practice is clear that you don't need the diagnosis to activate adjustments, you're not doing armchair diagnosis, she's on the pathway and they are obliged to act accordingly

This is the problem with modern schooling though isn't it? They provide a thousand times more support than they ever did in previous generations. They pander to kids and everything has to be an adjustment rather than an expectation. This thread is perfect proof of that. School tries to set a perfectly reasonable boundary and parents of perfectly capable children kick off claiming that their children 'aren't getting support'. This leads to children getting very mixed messages about what exactly is expected of them which (as you've articulated) makes it even harder for them to toe the line especially if they're ND (the irony!). They grow up miserable and anxious and entitled with no sense of self-responsibility or responsibility towards society. It's an uncomfortable truth but we need to seriously start looking at why we've never had so much support and money put into helping people but we've never had so many children and young people who are so fundamentally entitled, antisocial and unable to cope with the very basic stressors of life

I’m in Scotland so probably a bit different but my daughter is 13 with anxiety and (probable) autism. Wheels definitely came off in s1 as is common and we weren’t ready which is common too. Transitioning between classes was really hard - she has a 5 min pass and a break pass and a toilet pass but what she actually started doing was just leaving class slowly. Everyone leaps up when the bell rings but if she just lets them all go, she can get herself to her next class a bit behind the rush. Her school is across 3 buildings and 4 floors so she actually fell down the stairs a few times as one of her major triggers is being late and she’d panic and rush around. Once she slowed down and let the chaos happen ahead of her it has been much better.

There’s no chance your daughter will be assessed before turning 16 and moving over to adult services so if you really need an assessment I’d look for a private option. We are 2.5 years into our wait and to be honest, have found the most success by working on the symptoms regardless of what anyone else might call it. We found some therapy we paid for privately which was super helpful too and focussed our finances on that instead of an assessment - but for our daughter it’s really obvious what the assessment will find so better to focus on how to help her. Very different if you aren’t sure what exactly is going on so maybe better to get some professional support in place.

You can see private specialists here very quickly, but you also have to pay a big price that many don't have. Think well over £1,000. NHS wait times are really long, and continue to grow. Referral pathways are also incredibly complicated.

If your DD can’t cope in mainstream, maybe she needs to be homeschooled? I don’t think your expectations of the school are reasonable.

Have you tried giving her a timer or some kinda fidget, so she can go outside for, say one minute to calm down and avoid the busiest bit of the corridor, then she knows when to get moving she she's not late. Also some strategies for coping in the corridor when it is busy have been put in the thread, so worth going through one or two with her. I'd also say, help her with the organisation and make sure she's got her timetable with classrooms accessible, and a list of what she needs for each lesson, so she can plan around when she's able to, for example, visit her locker to replenish books, and isn't making additional trips that aren't timetabled for.

I'd also say, remove her phone totally for school. As much as you think she's outside for a break and just looses track of time or is taking too long, I'd say it's likely, if she's got a smartphone in school, that she's actually using social media and loosing track of time during these points too, either to distract herself, or just out of boredom, and it's part of what's making her late. Look at other things she could use (Eg wearing a watch, and box breathing for 60 seconds, then getting to class/ slowly breathing and pressing all the buttons on a popit in turn then going), which would be less likely to give a dopamine hit that she'd be getting from tiktok etc, but would calm her down, help her regulate and cope, and will get her to class on time.

May I ask why she hasn’t seen a psychiatrist yet? It may be different in the Uk but in Australia you can generally see a private psychiatrist within 4-6 weeks max. Wouldn’t actually finding out what the problem is be a big part of planning a solution?

You posted on AIBU, I’ll reply to any inflammatory or unfair posts I choose to thanks. The fact is boys and girls with SEND are being let down but as regards ND, girls more so. Whatever wait your son had girls will be waiting 5 years longer.

Ask to speak to the SENDCo again then use the school complaints procedure if you're not happy with the outcome. Is there a governor with a focus on SEND?

as someone who has severe ADHD, clear consistent boundaries are really helpful. I’m only going to do something if I either really want to do it or I really have to do it.

i think the two issues you have here are her missing out on learning time and the impact of the punishments on her identity.

im guessing the school have a way of making sure the punishment sessions doesn’t mean she loses learning opportunities? I would want to know that. Then you have to find a way to make sure you mitigate any shame or negative self identity when this happens.

finally I’d say support the school with this. It will really help your daughter. It may be a slow imperfect journey, but it will really help your daughter if she can get up lessons on time.

Sorry haven’t read the whole thread so don’t know if it is already mentioned or not, but it is illegal for the school to refuse accommodation for a suspected condition until there is a formal diagnosis. They have to provide accommodation based on the GP referral or other letter the GP writes stating what they have referred your child for.

ND kids have ooodles of resilience. They are coping with hugely difficult disabilities day in and day out. Getting into and surviving a day in a huge school setting with a disability is a massive achievement for many.

ADHD is a disability and not being unable to pull your act together.

Word of advice. If you do go down the private assessment, try to get in writing the providers they respect. They will be signposting parents to certain providers they respect and have seen used.

As someone with a child who loves to learn, and is frequently coming home upset and confused YABU. DS often comes home and recounts how not just one but often multiple lessons are disrupted by children just like yours rocking up 5, 10, 15 minutes late. It’s disruptive and detrimental as the teacher then has to go back over the material already covered, instructions etc… meaning the whole class is pulled back because one person can’t get their act together.

Instead of being angry (which is your issue) why aren't you putting that energy into supporting your DD to be on time? Why are you minimising the disruption of other pupils' learning, disrespect towards the classes and her teachers, and the handicap that persistent lateness will impose on your DD in her life?

As well as education, schools are setting up children ready for life.

Being on time is a life skill. I'd be digging deep to find ways to support her to be on time otherwise she will struggle with employment if she learns that being on time is not important.

Op, at 14yo I'd be looking at a private assessment because her support needs probably extend beyond lateness and she'll be doing her GCSEs in a couple of years. We did this for our ds in the end at the same age and he's now on medication.

He has struggled at times getting to class on time - particularly after break or lunchtime. In ds's case it was time management - he'd be playing football on the field at lunch, the bell would go and then he'd refill his water bottle before going to class which made him late. So we told him to set an alarm on his watch 5 mins before the end of lunch to give him enough time. Adhd is a reason why these things happen, but you still have to equip them with strategies to manage their more problematic symptoms.

If the school are not prepared to work with you, then you should push more forcefully because support is based on need and not diagnosis. We've had some success by phrasing things from the school's perspective: "we recognise that lateness/ not having the right equipment causes inconvenience to the school, so how can we manage this together?"

Support has still been extremely variable to be honest, and I do think you have to be prepared for much of the necessary scaffolding and symptom management ideas coming from you, firstly because you know your dd better than anyone and secondly because I still don't think schools are very good with adhd. Behaviours associated with it are still largely viewed as a choice rather than a result of neurodevelopmental difference. Smart but Scattered Teens is a helpful book which I'd recommend.

My DD has a physical disability so allowed to use the lift, which is not as helpful as it sounds because getting to the lift often involves moving against the one way system (similar huge school to OP's DC) and, even if she is going in the same direction, she can't walk as fast as everyone else.

She found leaving lessons early was not helpful as it meant she missed things and that just added an extra layer of anxiety.

The strategy she did find useful was to take her time leaving the classroom so she was a minute or so behind everyone else. The "traffic flow" is such that it meant that students would have moved away from their start classrooms so that the initial rush had passed, and the new batch of students had not yet "moved in". So I would suggest trying this as a strategy. She also had a friend walk with her and check she was ok/keep others at bay, which might also be a strategy that your DC could try.

I think you should ask for a meeting with the head of year and senco and insist that they allow her to leave classes 5 mins early and threaten to take things further with the school governors and local authority if not. You're really not asking for much and it seems churlish that they are refusing.

You should also find out exactly what steps they will take to accommodate her if she is diagnosed with ADHD. If they're not very good, it might be wise to move schools now. If they are very good, try to find 3K and get her diagnosed earlier.

OP, I wonder if you might be better off getting the thread moved to Education? If you post in AIBU, you will get honest, unfiltered answers, and if you are feeling fragile about the situation, or if you are not willing to be told YABU, it is not going to be doing you any good.

Does your daughter have a smartphone? If she does, the first thing I would be doing is swapping it out for a brick phone.

It will be this.
along with maybe needing to be in the toilets when nobody else there if she has period issues?

I hope you get through to the school - invoking the law and send code and her right to an education.