School lateness punishments, neurodiversity and the law

• She told us that the current waiting time for NHS assessments is around 4 years. Part of the problem is a national shortage of practitioners able to do the assessments*

There's a shortage of practitioners because they all realised they could make £1-2k a pop doing private work.

If every body stopped paying for private assessments and cut off that revenue, you would probably find they would all have to go to doing NHS work to pay the bills & voila.

The problem, is the NHS will prioritise based on need, and wealthy middle class parents aren't willing to wait behind the poor kid who's needs are more urgent.

I'm a mum to an 5yo with ASD and we have had a couple of issues in school. You're taking the wrong approach with this. If you've been dealing with this for 3 years and the wait list for ADHD assessment is 18m you should have started the process to get support a long time ago.
You need to work collaboratively with the school. Take responsibility and set up a meeting. Control the narrative of the meeting, "i'm here because I want to discuss x,y,z, be solution focused" - what can you do to help and what can the school do. What does your daughter think can help? Does she need to speak to a child psychologist to talk about her anxiety. I really don't think you've made much effort here OP and I say this as a SEN mum with a full time job. DS got diagnosed at 3, we've seen psychiatrist, psychologist, OT, meetings with school, nutrionist, neurologist and just about anyone who may be able to help. You are not helping your daughter or yourself by focusing on the negatives. If you're stuck with how to frame the meeting, put it into chatgpt, explain the problem and the outcome you want (daughter on time for class) see what suggestions and talking points it throws up.
Be proactive. If your daughter is overwhelmed by the noise she may have sensory issues - OT can help with determining a sensory profile if needed. I strongly suspect my 5yo has ADHD like his dad but they don't test for it here until age 7 so in the meantime we work with other practitioners to help - OT makes a big difference.

Utter bull! 🤣🤣

Are you saying you’ve never come across a pupil, friend or colleague who seemed a bit ‘odd’ compared to the rest of the gang? I bet you’re one of those NT people who judge others based on your own behaviours and if others are different, they’re the ones who must be failing.

My DS is diagnosed with Autism. It’s clear that myself and DH also have many of the same traits. Once I thought about it, I realised my dad (rip) also had those traits and he was a pilot in WW2. I used to assume that his mathematical brilliance and obsessions etc. were due to trauma from the war, but now I can clearly see he was also Autistic.

Presumably, based on your logic, no-one in the long distant past ever died of a rare cancer or other disease as it couldn’t possibly exist until a doctor discovered it and named it, in the 20th century. 🤦🏻‍♀️

Not helpful if they refuse to do it but my similar sounding DD has a leave early pass so leaves each lesson 3 mins early to not be late for the next one. She does have a diagnosis but not an echp. Just if you are looking for things to suggest I think the schools view is it's less disruptive for someone to sneak out early than turn up late.

Contact SENDIASS which is Special Educational Needs and Disability Information, Advice and Support Service. They’re great at helping parents navigate the education system in cases like this.

Two things that jump out at me. You do not need a diagnosis for support. And you are not asking for allowances you are asking for reasonable adjustments, is your dd on the send register and have you met with senco?

I would advise reading the Sen code of practice (the law) and your school’s behaviour policy (their guiding document they should follow) Everything goes back to the behaviour policy which should include reasonable adjustments to help students meet the rules / expectations. From my experience it’s unlikely they’ll let your DD arrive late, they might let her leave early tho.

You would be better moving this to the SEN boards OP.

Executive function the school needs to gen up on that and support.

This is so funny, my friend who also has adhd is sat by me on train and said EXACTLY the same thing re only doing what they want to and have to! She gets on well with a pretty high powered job because it has absolutely hard deadlines that she cannot miss, so she gets stuff done.

I do sometimes wonder if we think the softening of deadlines/making allowances is the answer but in fact, given time to get used to it, firm boundaries might really help more.

Just guessing but allowing kids with SEND to leave a classroom early to get to the next lesson is definitely a thing. But only in a very small number of applicable cases. The school must think this adjustment is not necessary for your child.

go back and have a non adversarial conversation with them. Do they have any suspicions re additional need that would help your case for diagnosis ? Are there any other times she can’t cope with busy corridors, or is she fine leaving the classrooms at break / lunch / home time? (If she’s fine at those times, you can see why they’d be suspicious that it’s not a needed adjustment).

Yet the frustrating thing is, schools try to bring in rules to make corridors quieter to allow children like your DD to manage..... and parents don't like it and say its draconian!

Did you mean she's actually going out the school building between lessons instead of on to class? Are you positive she isn't vaping?

Even if she is ND, she shouldn't be detouring off outside between classes

Fgs schools can’t do right for doing wrong. It’s walking between classes with a 5 minute grace. They have been making allowances. Stop enabling her. This is why schools are in the mess they are in. School have been supportive with allowing extra time. She gets there within the 5 minutes or she’s punished. What do you think would happen at work for persistent lateness??

In life, she is going to face consequences for constant lateness. Lots of employers won't tolerate it, she'll miss trains and flights, she alienate friends, miss medical appointments and parents evening appointments.

Its obviously something she finds really hard. But that doesn't mean she should be allowed a pass on it. It's a bit like maths. Its really hard for some people, but its important that you have those skills for adulthood.

Can you give her more tools to manage? Watches that buzz, calendar reminders on phone, a pomodoro timer to help her see how long the 5 mins is to get from lesson to lesson?

Are you working with her on ways to manage the feeling of overwhelm rather than simply avoiding it?

Its going to stand her in better stead for the rest of her life if you help her to build a range of strategies that help, eg can she pop ear plugs in before leaving the classroom to lessen the din, can she use breathing exercises as she walks to keep herself calm, can she ask a friend to stick with her and help her keep going and get to class?

Even if she left 1 minute early she'd still find as she got to her destination classroom things would be in full swing as that classroom would be emptying and moving out - its not the solution you think it is, if it was that simple school would be ok with it. And leaving 4-5 minutes early from every lesson represents a LOT of lost learning time and is really disruptive to the rest of the class - and their learning needs matter, too.

Yes public lists are the same here but you’d just go private it’s your child’s health not a kitchen aid. This is hugely impactful for her education and future prospects.

Unfortunately long waits for diagnosis are all too common in the U.K.

I have a child who’s been on the neurodiversity assessment pathway for a similar length of time to OP’s DD.

I went to a parent / carer event a while back, and they had someone from the local NHS neurodiversity assessment team giving a presentation. She told us that the current waiting time for NHS assessments is around 4 years.
Part of the problem is a national shortage of practitioners able to do the assessments, which also affects waiting times for other routes. And the other problem with going private is that often the NHS will refuse to prescribe any ADHD meds without an NHS diagnosis.

The lengthy waits for assessments is one of the reasons that schools are supposed to provide support based on need, rather than waiting until a child has a formal diagnosis.

where I am, the NHS waiting list for a child to see someone for such things is seven YEARS. I went private.

But that’s life right? It’s hard and it’s harder for people with ADHD but being on time is just necessary. If you start work at 9am and don’t get there til 910 it’s going to cause a problem with your employer too. If the bus comes at 830am and you get to the bus stop at 835am - it’s gone.

@VividDenimTiger

I’m in Ireland so it’s different here but…I paid for a private appt. with a paediatric neurologist for DS when he was 14. Essentially, he was diagnosed with Autism and severe Dyspraxia.

My GP had referred him through the public health system (NHS equivalent) but I was concerned that he needed school support NOW as the school wouldn’t do anything without a referral and he’d already been waiting since primary school due to delays caused by Covid. He was academically very able but had various autistic traits similar to your daughter and was struggling with the noise and busyness of school and being hassled by the other kids.

It cost me €700 and was money well spent!

He saw the neurologist 3 times and we (parents, DS and school) also completed thorough questionnaires and subsequently the neurologist wrote a detailed report for school stating what adjustments needed to be made.

Once you have written recommendations from a medical expert, the school would be taking a risk ignoring them as a court would always support a medical expert over a school administrator, and schools are aware of this.

The Learning Support worker at DS’s school and his Head of Year were brilliant to be fair, once they’d received the report. In addition to exam support, he was also allowed to ditch PE (due to the severe dyspraxia affecting his balance and co-ordination) and spend those sessions in the learning support room completing homework.

He was able to take his Junior Cert exams (approx GCSE equiv) in a small exam room using a laptop and did very well.

Ignore the shitty comments from the clueless posters. Good luck!

And it is not bloody fair to the other 30 children in the class who are having their education interrupted every time your daughter is late is it? Same as leaving the classroom early.
You need to help her understand and put practises in place so she learns to manage her time.
In less than 4 years she will be in the adult world where employers expect ( and rightly so) employee's to turn up on time and co-workers expect the same if your daughter is having to relive them.

In 3 years you could have saved enough to see a Dr… just saying.

You need to change your approach to the school. If you’re going in with a combative “you’re failing her” attitude you will get nowhere. SEN resources in schools are stretched to breaking point. Teachers are stretched to breaking point. Schools are tired of parents demanding allowances and privileges and 1-1 support for kids who aren’t diagnosed, like it’s all their fault the parents have only just decided to seek help and now want every adjustment done asap.

I say this as a SEN parent and partner of a teacher. Your anger is misplaced. Talk to your DD about what might help her move between lessons without getting stressed - headphones with music, fidget spinner, early leave pass, designated buddy support etc - then present as solutions. If support is still lacking, ask for a meeting with SEN and head of year. Be persistent but tolerant.

You say you've tried everything but everything you've mentioned here is trying to get the school to make amends not helping your daughter to overcome her issues.

What does she do that makes her late? Hide somewhere? Get lost in corridors? It's not hard to break it down 30 seconds by 30 seconds and there are many things she can do in that time.