School lateness punishments, neurodiversity and the law

Ah, yes, of course, ADHD and puberty don't impact circadian rhythms at all, and starting the day earlier is going to be SO helpful when it's 11:05 and OP's DD has 5 minutes to get to her French lesson.

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It's a shame that it sounds like the school aren't really being flexible or creative enough in finding a way forward other than "you must fit in this exact box or we'll punish you".

My initial questions about what she's doing or where she's going have been answered in your reply to someone else. She's overwhelmed by the crowds so goes outside? Your suggestion is that she leaves lessons earlier so she can move to the next class in a quieter corridor. This sounds sensible, doesn't involve any extra staff at school, but I can see why they'd be resistant as that last chunk of a lesson can be important for summarising, giving homework, checking in on where everyone's at in their understanding of the learning objective etc. But I'm not sure why school won't trial it for a couple of weeks.

From her age, I'm guessing she's year 9 so starting GCSEs next year, so a few less subjects maybe but it's still a jam packed timetable. Will her subject choices help? e.g. are they in smaller classes or a lot in a quieter certain area of the school?

It's disappointing that the SENCo hasn't responded. What's been the process there? I don't know exactly what the set up is in England but from a Wales perspective, I'm confused as to why she wouldn't have an IDP (Individual Development Plan) as a living document to give you all something to check in on, have an agreement on things put in place to try and address those barriers to her learning. She shouldn't need a diagnosis for that.

If it's the overwhelm from noise, does she have those loop earbud things? Are there alternative routes she can take which aren't as crowded?

Go to bed earlier

Sure, depriving herself of sleep is going to help her get between lessons faster.

Yes and it's so tiresome and has a negative impact on the other kids.

It's becoming its own version of the two tier systems so widely complained about in the police and health sectors.

I am obviously going to get flamed for saying this but (a) it's true and (b) I am in no way minimising the genuine and significant mental development difficulties that some children face and the need for better SEN provision away from the regular secondary school environment.

Or facing constant consequences can make a child give up completely as they always fail so Whats the point? A child is not going to be able to work out her own strategies without guidance from someone who knows what they are talking about and without wider support from school to ensure that they are supported to follow those strategies and also have some leeway when they fail.
Just because you managed to sort yourself out doesn’t mean everyone can or will be able to do it. Clearly the OPs daughter can’t and the punishments are not an effective tool to help her change her behaviour. In fact they are the opposite and are leading to school refusal.

I have ADHD (diagnosed) and so I appreciate the difficulty however there are no excuses regarding punctuality for school.

Get up earlier - an hour earlier if needs be. It's not good enough to just blame ADHD. You are aware of the challenges so should help your DD with these and find a coping mechanism. You need to set her up for success rather than self pity/excuses.

You cannot expect the school to allow this behaviour.

I don't mean to sound harsh but you are the parent so parent.

Just heard today that kids with adhd are corrected over 20,000 times more than their peers by the age of ten. The only way for fairness in this system is a complete overhaul of the Victorian schools system we are all still suffering under.

This is a really interesting perspective, thank you. As a mum at the start of supporting a kid (with autism, they think, not ADHD) what things / people / supports helped you to develop those strategies? Would anything have helped you to develop them faster if you had to work them all out on your own? I feel constantly on the knife edge of providing support without allowing a sense of incapability to set in.

Is it the right school for her? A couple of schools we visited have supervised silent transitions between classes - they pride themselves on it and made sure that the tour of the school included us witnessing the 10 minutes between classes. If the chaos and noise is causing her problems there may be another school that would be more suitable

I don't have transport, I'm a solo parent, physically disabled, scarily low income etc, but I did what it took to get my daughters diagnosed.
I guess it just depends how hard you're prepared to fight.
And, it's you that's being the arse, with your snotty first reply.

Thanks 🙏🏻

I would consider asking school to give her a buddy for lesson transitions - someone who can understand what happens in those moments so a plan can be made. As much as your dc needs support, her behaviour is detrimental to approx 29 other dc and that’s not okay either. I’d be looking at how we could work with the school to develop DD’s skills.

Excellent idea - your insight is astounding.

Why does having a full time professional job mean you can't possibly need pip?

Oh my god this thread is infuriating. Why are posters persistently saying that the child just needs to “learn to cope” and that the OP needs to be doing more and not expecting the school to actually step up and provide support?
A child cannot just “learn to cope” unless strategies and scaffolding is put in place to help them do it. She doesn’t know or have the skills to know how to cope. If the school are saying that they’d confiscate Loop ear buds that could actually help with managing the issue of sensory overload, I think that tells us all me need to know about them.

And as someone has pointed out, workplaces have to by law put reasonable adjustments in place. Adults aren’t expected “just to cope” or get on with it. Through Access to Work I was provided with noise cancelling headphone, a standing desk, and I have a WFH arrangement plus a managed workload. All to ensure I can do my job despite my ND.

OP, a friend of mine had similar issues with her DD. Our school was pretty rubbish but thankfully not as strict as yours. Just quite ineffective. She got SENDASS involved. She also made a significant complaint via the governors.

As someone with ADHD, she really needs to make her own adjustments, as others have said, being on time is a very important life skill, the plane isn’t going to wait for her, her employer isn’t going to allow her to be late.

If she’s overwhelmed by noise she needs to wear headphones, if she’s getting distracted easily she needs to buddy up with a friend going to the same class, if she’s anxious in crowds she needs to practice breathing techniques and ways of calming herself down. I’m speaking from experience because I have to practice all of these things frequently myself. I have developed many coping strategies over the years of understanding my condition and they work extremely well for me.

Additionally, many people with ADHD are motivated almost entirely by fear of consequences, so removing the consequences of her being late is likely to do more harm than good. I dread to think what my life would have turned out like if I was just given excuses and accommodations. I probably would have believed I wasn’t capable and given up or not even tried.

Yes it sucks that basic things other people do effortlessly requires so much effort, but finding ways to support yourself gives you a lot of confidence and self belief, it’s better to find strategies that work for you, instead of believing it’s not possible or you’re incapable.

The quick pathway is called Right to Choose I think. England only.

@blueneopre

Then OP can home school her in that case and shelter her from coping with any of the mess and chaos of life.

It doesn't seem like leaving lessons 1 minute earlier would make much difference, your DD would still be in the busy, noisy corridor with everyone else. In fact, however early she leaves, she won't be able to access her next classroom until the current class vacates, so she needs a strategy that doesn't involve physically removing herself from the busyness for 10 minutes.

Is she still at a stage where her whole class follows the same timetable? Could she have a 'buddy' to guide her between classes? Would noise cancelling headphones be an option? Fidget toys in her pockets? Does she forget where she is going? Is there a quiet space she could retreat to briefly, or a quieter route she could take, that wouldn't take as long as "hiding outside"?

Maybe you need to ask what is causing the problem. Is it gathering up her stuff at the end of the lesson. Is it finding the next room. Too many things left on the desk. And try to find a way to deal with it.

Two things:

1. There is far more pushing, casual physical bullying, shouting and screaming, etc in secondary school classrooms than in any of those public spaces you mention. Things my son deals with daily in school would be police matters if they happened to you in a shopping mall. People’s behaviour is much more unpredictable (and generally worse!) when dealing with huge crowds of teenagers.

2. The way you ‘learn’ to deal with challenges related to true cognitive overload is different from the way you learn to overcome other challenges you might face in life. If you’ve not experienced this, or seen your child experience it, you should recognise your lack of experience. Of course, the goal is to be able to appear to deal with stressors in a typical way - believe me no ND teen wants to stand out, they want to blend in with friends just like any teen. But they need supports / strategies to do this not a ‘push through’ / exposure approach which only makes cognitive overload worse.

So many of these posts assume that a) she has friends to follow b) that they are going to the same place c) that she knows where she needs to go without checking d) can actually think coherently and doesn't go into fight flight or freeze mode when overwhelmed in a busy corridor. OP it's outrageous that the school refuses to allow any adjustments when the diagnosis pathway takes years. If you can afford to go private or access the quick NHS pathway (I forget the name), then it's worth it, if that's the only way the school can make adjustments. If you've exhausted complaints to the school, it's probably worth a complaint to the governors explaining that your daughter is on the diagnosis pathway, that it can take years, but that the school are refusing any reasonable adjustments in the meantime. It can be so difficult to get help. Good luck.

Every school is a special needs school nowadays.