School lateness punishments, neurodiversity and the law

I'm quite late to this thread but just wanted to give my experience on this OP. My 15yr old has had a turbulent year 10. We have just got pre-qualifying results back that suggests he has high markers for autism and adhd, and we will proceed with private screening for both asap. He's also been on the SEN register at school for his whole school life and had varying assessments along the way.

I do not expect school to make allowances for him unless documented in his learning passport. I understand that the rules are there for the many and need to be in place. All incidents have been logged and fed back from school in to his pre-qualifying assessments. The only way forward is to work with the school which I have been doing for the last year to build a bigger picture which will help us get more out of year 11. I don't think its enough to have a suspicion, you need feedback from teachers and need to get on board with what you can do.
Does she qualify for extra time in exams, does she need a laptop to work, is it worth assessing her for dyslexia, have you done the pre-qualifying assessments for adhd that will indicate her markers and give school something to work with while you wait for a diagnoses etc... I don't personally blame schools for pushing back a bit if they don't feel enough engagement with parents or understand the bigger picture.

You missed this bit.

"I am not talking about children who don't have the capacity for such learning. I am not talking about forcing such training on a child."

i mean if you want to ignore professional research that graded exposure therapy isn't suitable for sensory processing difficulties knock yourself out. The rest of us will carry on using adjustments and therapies that work to actually help our children manage such situations without traumatising them and causing further MH difficulties. The guilt trippy 'I would do anything', well cool. Those of us that actually spend time researching how best to help our children would do that too, just in an educated way.

Neurodivergence isn't just autism and/or adhd.

I agree with you that your daughter's school are very definitely not helping your child access her learning
They are not helping with learning because they have become more focused on discipline, the point of the school has changed to crowd control as opposed to education, it's changed just ever so slightly. So slightly that they can't see it, even though it's so painfully obvious to an outsider.

Straight from the school of "well were all a bit autistic really" nonsense.

Even those with Asperger Syndrome are significantly less likely to be in full-time employment compared to the rate among disabled people as a whole. For example, one University, Goldsmiths, says best estimates indicate 80% of adults with Asperger Syndrome have been unable to secure long-term employment. Another example, The Foundation for People with Learning Disabilities says only around 15% of adults with Asperger Syndrome are in employment.

The Buckland Review found “Autistic graduates are twice as likely to be unemployed after 15 months as non-disabled graduates, with only 36% finding full-time work in this period.” Now not all of these graduates will have a presentation that would have previously been diagnosed as Asperger Syndrome, but many will.

Someone is, of course, free to not see themselves as disabled, but someone who meets the diagnostic criteria for ASD also meets the legal definition in the Equality Act of having a disability.

I don’t know why some are conflating having a disability with being eligible for disability benefits. One can have a disability as per the legal definition but not be eligible for disability benefits.

MN hates people - especially children - not being 'punished' adequately. Many posters have little comprehension that because things don't affect them personally, they can't affect anyone else and hate to see anyone getting something they don't have. They also refuse to believe that 'bucking up' and 'trying harder' just simply don't work for some people in some instances, and they must must MUST be faking it.

That is being beautifully demonstrated on this thread. I'm sorry you've had to wade through it.

I agree with you that your daughter's school are very definitely not helping your child access her learning - refusing to make adjustments for her is actively denying her an education by making her miss lessons. It seems counterproductive to me.

How would you even begin to understand non diagnosed cases of ADHD/ASD?

It's estimated that at least 3% of people have ASD and 3% have ADHD using current diagnostic criteria however over half of Gen Z identify as being ND. Studies using the Adult ADHD Self Report Scale (ASRS) show that around a quarter of people provide answers that indicate they have ADHD. Whilst I don't think every one of these people would receive a diagnosis, it's interesting that they must identify with some of the ND traits strongly enough to suspect that they might get a diagnosis. This indicates that most people have reasonably significant struggles and challenges in their life associated with ND traits. Clearly there is a huge grey area between people that have very few struggles with ND traits, those that struggle a lot and those that receive a diagnosis. The distinction won't always be clearcut between who does and doesn't get a diagnosis and it is totally possible that someone that doesn't meet the threshold for a diagnosis struggles more than someone that does due to the way the diagnostic process works. It isn't simply a test of how disabling your ND traits are.

Binary definitions help nobody. Most people will need some level of support with an ND trait in their lifetime. Adjustments aren't always the answer. ND traits can impact people differently and can be experienced less severely in some people than others. Every human brain is wired differently, the idea that there is an ND brain isn't true anymore than it is true to say that there is a 'kind' brain.

None of those figures are counted, none of us know what that balance is. The percentage unemployed will be very different for those who have what used to be called Asperger's. It is meaningless to lump every person with an ASD diagnosis in the same analysis.

I think if you're going to extrapolate from "non-diagnosed" cases of adhd/asd to make your point then you need to include all those individuals in prison, those who've had mental breakdowns and those that end up as addicts/suicides as well. Far more of them than the people managing fine in jobs w no support.

I am genuinely sorry you feel that way.

All I would say is that I think this whole issue is hugely sensitive but ultimately most people want the best for our young people and those with challenges and disabilities. Very few people want to see young people lead terrible or severely restricted lives. Threads like these will always become a bit of a battleground because there is no consensus in science or society about how best to manage the kinds of issues your daughter faces and SEN and ND as a whole. Realistically the answer is likely to be nuanced and very specific to the individual. This is why the whole ND/NT binary distinction is so unhelpful as it is so easy to pick apart, but this doesn't detract from the very real problems your daughter faces.

It's very hard to have differing views on important issues and show absolute tolerance and tolerance to posters. You will see this on threads about gender identity, religion etc. You may strongly believe that the school must make specific adjustments for your DD but this might not be the best way to tackle the issue. I was persistently late as a teenager too and had real trouble getting to places on time. There was less recognition of SEN in those days and to be honest, I had to find my own ways of managing this to make sure I wasn't stuck in detention everyday. My issue was more around time blindness which is a common ADHD trait. Now as an adult I still utilise the methods I learnt then to try to minimise this trait has on my life. If school had just made allowances then I don't know how I would have developed these techniques. It's all a very grey and complex area but adjustments and allowances aren't appropriate in all cases even when ND is driving the behaviour. It's not bullying or ignorance to suggest this.

Sorry it has been difficult - I would report your post and ask for it to be moved to special education as you will get the right audience there.

The problem with denying that it’s a disability which in some cases will require adjustments

I haven't done that.

A relative had a physical job, drove a car without adaptations, didn’t need any help or adjustments for anything he wanted to do. He also only had one leg. Would you also consider him not to have had a disability or is it somehow different if it’s visible?

Does he drive his car up to the tills in Tesco?

I think you have entered some kind of extreme thinking. As referenced upthread, all of us have ND traits. It's part of being human. Some people will have traits that can be managed more easily and are more compatible with living a 'normal' life. Some people will have far more extreme traits that are difficult to manage even with all the best techniques and adjustments. To lump everyone together and say that those that can manage their traits are just as disabled as those that can't is plainly ludicrous.

A good analogy with a physical disability is eyesight. I would be legally blind if it weren't for the invention of glasses and contact lenses that work for me because I have regular astigmatism. If I were to have irregular astigmatism then glasses and contact lenses wouldn't necessarily correct my vision adequately and I would potentially need more specialist solutions which also might not work. Ultimately I could be rendered legally blind if I had the level of astigmatism that I currently have but it was irregular instead of regular.

By your definition, anyone with severe astigmatism should be considered disabled as without adjustments we would all be legally blind. That's clearly nonsense though as that would put me, someone who can function well with glasses and contact lenses, in the same category as someone that would be unable to do so many things due to their poor eyesight.

ND is even more nuanced as how do we even know who is ND and who isn't? Those most able to advocate for themselves often want the idea of a spectrum and different levels of needs to be erased but where does it leave those who will never live independently, speak or use the toilet?

But if you are moderating the disabling effects then you’re making your own adjustments - it doesn’t mean that it’s not a disability, just that in your circumstances it’s not a disability you need additional adjustments for.

The problem with denying that it’s a disability which in some cases will require adjustments is that it then leads people who don’t know much to think “well, X has ADHD and says it’s not a disability so therefore Y must be taking this piss as Y isn’t actually disabled”.

A relative had a physical job, drove a car without adaptations, didn’t need any help or adjustments for anything he wanted to do. He also only had one leg. Would you also consider him not to have had a disability or is it somehow different if it’s visible?

I predict we will quite soon have a new label for people who would have been Asperger's in the past.

Not only is there a growing body of professional opinion saying this would be the right path, it's supported by the latest research.

www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2026/06/260602021634.htm

Do you think it helps the people who genuinely need disability payments and reasonable adjustments at work to dismiss the experiences of others that it is possible for some people to moderate the disabling effects of ASD and ADHD?

@Viviennemarywhilst it’s tough, life unfortunately doesn’t make any special exceptions so now would be a great opportunity to help your DD learn the skills she needs to be on time, however tough that might be.

And I repeat I have no idea how you got a diagnosis as to receive an ADHD diagnosis, your symptoms must cause a "clinically significant impairment" across multiple areas of life, such as at work, school, or in personal relationships. It is not enough to simply have the traits; they must actively interfere with your daily functioning.

As made clear in the NHS Taskforce report I linked to below which was created by leading experts in the field.

We’re not back in the day of Asperger’s and have moved on significantly. Back in the day women and girls were often not even recognised as having austism and adhd.

I came back on this site a few months ago after a few years away. It's become even more right wing and intolerant. No wonder mumsnet has the reputation it has. It's full of ignorant arrogant bigots. I can't imagine any of you people telling her to mask and /or suck it up will do any research to attempt to see our POV or listen to those of us who are telling you the dangers of masking and the real proven risk to mental health and risk of suicide so I'm not posting anymore.

Op if I were you I would try reddit or another place with more reasonable folk on it. Facebook has lots of good send parent groups. Mumsnet is not the place to talk about mental health or invisible disabilities.
But if you want to complain that your darling's private school is a bit more expensive or someone parked outside your house and your massive SUV won't quite fit in the remaining space or God forbid your child's teacher wants them to use PRONOUNS then you are in the right place.

My nephew's official diagnosis, written in a letter from the hospital, was 'mild Asperger's syndrome'. (Back in the day when it was as still called that).