School lateness punishments, neurodiversity and the law

Another one that didn't bother to read the OP.

Does she have any friends who would be moving to the same class that she could walk with? Even if not every time, this may reduce some absence.
I've suggested this a couple of times upthread but not sure OP read them/was interested? My GC buddied a friend who was temporarily in a wheelchair, negotiating corridors and lifts to get them to class within the 5 mins. If they were in a different class - the honour was passed on to another friend (at the end of the year, GC received a 'Good Friendship Award' and was pink with embarrassment). I don't know whether this could help or not.....

I would say it is more common than not to have multiple children either ADHD and ASD in a classroom.

I just asked DS who has ASD level 2 what happens in his school and he said he just goes with the other kids and the other ND kids do the same.

I’m not saying schools won’t make allowances but I’m not sure they do often. Try to open a communication with some teacher/SENCO and see what can happen.

I agree with others saying this sounds very sensory so definitely consider ASD.

The problem is being late to lessons as she’s overwhelmed by the busy corridors (amongst other things) and the school refusing support as she’s still awaiting diagnosis.
What do you expect the OP to do?

Schools have got to breaking point due to a steady real terms drop in funding and having to pick up the pieces when the seevices that used to support young people has been cut or removed all together.

Would you support a kid with a physical disability being punished for struggling to get between lessons promptly?

In the real world they need to learn to be on time.
It’s really unfair that everyone else’s learning is disrupted due to people coming in late, ND isn’t an excuse for lateness. ADHD family where we implemented ensuring they learnt that in order to succeed in life you need to be on time. They all work in jobs where if they were late they would no longer have a job.

is she at school on time? As that’s your responsibility

I think YANBU sorry OP - I'm being assessed for AuDHD myself, have three other immediate family members with both. I'm also a teacher. 5 minutes grace period is actually quite a lot.

Edit: sorry, OP, clearly didn't read your post properly! Sent to a punishment room for the lesson?? That's awful! I mean my college used to lock the doors after 5 minutes and students on EMA would lose their funding for the week, but what if a student has had a pastoral or medical issue? I do still think 5 minutes is a good amount of time to get to class if she's getting prompted by a bell and other students moving but that policy is just mad. Surely just issue them a late mark! And students who want to avoid lessons will just drag their feet so they can go to the "punishment" room (IME these can be anything but! How awful

What's happening during your DD's school day? I'm assuming students walk themselves to lessons, as in some schools classes are escorted by the teacher (usually beginning of the day and after break and lunch). There should be a bell that lets students know it's time to move to their next lesson, and any teachers on duty in break/lunch areas will start shooing (for want of better word!) students to start moving to their next lessons. I've taught so many ND students and I don't think I've ever come across one where suspected ADHD as in not organising themselves was the reason for lateness to lessons during the school day. Far more likely to be anxiety, autism, truancy, anything leading them to feel overwhelmed and avoid busy corridors or not wanting to go to lessons, rather than not knowing it was time to go.

Does your DD spend break/lunch with friends or anywhere there are other students eg the library to get a visual reminder that it's time to leave? Is she taking a long time to pack up moving between lessons? Usually students can cross our secondary campus in five minutes and teachers will mark late only if someone's arriving well after everyone else.

For me personally I need reminders that I can see or hear and immediately act on, it's my perception of time passing that is rubbish, among other things.

Out of interest, why is it? When my son was first diagnosed with crohns he'd lost so much weight he had to tube feed almost constantly to get the 3000 calories of liquid nutrition he needed into him each day. He'd set up the pump at break or lunch times but it would finish mid way through the next lesson and he'd have to nip out to disconnect the pump and flush it. His school and teachers had no problem accommodating that which was surely more potentially disruptive than leaving a lesson a minute early. He was also allowed to be late for a lesson if it was at the opposite end of the school from the medical room where his supplies were kept. Those accommodations made the difference between him being able to attend school and not ie the difference between missing 1 month of school and 3 months.

It almost as though many people dont believe that disabilities you can't see are real.

She doesn’t have to be deprived of anything. She has 10 minutes to get to her next class. The corridors are not rammed for the entire 10 minutes.

Leaving class a few minutes early is a well recognised and helpful adjustment for kids with physical, MH and NT diagnosis.
Would you feel the same if it was a child in a wheelchair or on crutches who needed to leave when corridors are quieter for safety purposes? Or is that unreasonable too?

I have custom moulded ear plugs. Loop earplugs are shite and absolutely a case of the emperor’s new clothes.

Because it's disruptive. Because they very often work up to the bell. Reading lessons in English would have to finish early, tidying away in practical lessons would be left for the others to do.

You already thanked me for my wonderful insight and now you’ve said it twice! I’m truly grateful but it’s getting embarrassing now for you- your gratitude has been noted. No need to repeat yourself again! 😙

Why does the child have to be deprived of the normal experience of education just because she's disabled? Plenty of schools manage well with neurodiverse children, after all.

Why? OP is only asking for one minute early. Plenty of schools manage that as a reasonable adjustment.

What about this is an issue for others, do you think? If someone moving around in class time is a problem do you think that no kids should be able to go to the toilet during lessons? How calm / quiet do you think secondary school lessons are?

Loop earplugs are raking it in with their shitty ear plug cases that fall open randomly and lose the bastard things (I'm bitter - can you tell).

It's hard to explain if you're not wired in a way that you struggle with sensory processing - the best way I can explain it is that amazing feeling of just unclenching when you take a slightly uncomfortable bra off? That's the kind of reduction in overload I feel when I put some form of earplug or noise cancelling headphones on. I don't tend to use Loops much because a) I've lost about 10 pairs cos of shitty case design and b) I have eczema in my ears so they're often sore and itchy - but I do increasingly rock noise cancelling over the earphones when I'm anywhere busy and it reduces my stress levels down a notch - which can be the difference between me being able to continue functioning and not.

There have been a few unreasonable suggestions on here. Leaving the lessons early is one of those.

OK let's start by pre-emptively addressing the usual ND thread tosspot bingo points:
I am diagnosed autistic and dyslexic - late in adulthood - shitty as hell self esteem, shredded mental health which has only improved post diagnosis.
One child diagnosed with DCD/ASD/inattentive ADHD - runs at a high level of anxiety to try to people please and do "right" in class - absolutely dream kid to teach apparently, high in the entire school positive behaviour points scheme every year - diagnosed with all bar the ADHD before she started secondary
One child diagnosed late with ASD in Y8 - but it's been screamingly obvious for years. Can be a bit of a chatty so and so in school and did take 150 tiny 3D printed whistles in which caused chaos once - but basically regarded in teacher terms as a good kid "needs sitting on to rein it in occasionally" (so I'm under no illusions she's an angel).

All very "female" presentations of the various conditions. I'm also trained in ADOS administration and coding, contribute to NHS diagnostic pathways.

We claim nothing in benefits (not even child benefit as we're above the income cutoff). I applied for DLA for the younger child when she was infant age - was declined because "she is a well behaved child", and didn't have the mental spoons to push it through appeals. I tend to be one of the leading representatives for ND staff in my work, and I'm also one of the most pragmatic people going for balancing inclusion with getting the actual job done. I'm very positive about my differently wired brain, but accept that I might be a square peg - but society needs a hell of a lot of round holes filled so how can we work that as well as we can.

DD1 started secondary about 2 years into the assessment waiting list - secondary's approach from the outset has been that the waiting lists are so terrible - we'll support her as if she is - so she had a key worker to support with the transition and home-school liaison, a bit of friendship group support and this was all gradually stepped down once she settled - apart from whistle-gate (thank god her tutor teaches 3D design so was actually rather impressed) - she's done brilliantly - probably slightly underachieves from her full potential because her social life matters to her more - but since my school years were spent being beaten up because I was "weird" - I'll take her doing OK and being happy.

DD2 is more anxious, but because of how well behaved she is (her parents evenings seriously get boring after the first 3 teachers say how hard she works and how well behaved she is bless her) - she can fly below the radar a bit. However school know her executive functioning is not the greatest, combined with her natural anxiety - and they focus on strategies to work around that rather than coming down on her like a tonne of bricks for things - and it's worked wonders - her organisation and dealing with overwhelm has developed, her confidence has grown and she's only lost half her belongings around school this year. It's little things - like she loses her PE kit or takes an age getting changed - so they let her (and a fair few other kids) stay in PE kit on the relevant days, she's got a locker allocated right near her form room so she's got less chance of losing everything on a random side-quest between lessons... nothing that takes out of teaching time, but things that just take a little humanity and will to understand. She's also absolutely flying in school - however - we picked the school carefully, it's out of catchment and a bit of a pain to get to on a morning - but the local school is an outstanding "squish every ounce of dissent or individuality out of them and only top grades are good enough" place - academically they'd have done probably slightly better there - but neither of them are a personality that would have thrived mentally and I would bet that I'd have ended up with at least one trying to school-avoid.

So yeah OP - the school's a shite fit.

When you say she is hiding until its quiet, is she standing outside of the classroom where the teacher can see that she is there? If that is the case, then maybe she can wait until the last person is in and then go straight in?
Or is she elsewhere?
Can she maybe get some ear defenders so that she can stay focused on where she needs to be?

Speak with the sendco and ask if they can trial run giving her a 5 minute pass so she can leave lessons 5 mins early. Trial it for 2 weeks for example and if it works, it works. If it doesnt work then back to the drawing board.

I'm a teacher and also have adhd. Here's a solution. She needs her bag to be fully packed for all lessons happening that day. Forget lockers and picking things up between lessons. You can help her with this at home the night before.
She needs to identify someone in each class who goes onto the next class and follow them.
If she needs a toilet break, she needs to do it during class time.
Your only other option is to loiter outside each class and walk her to her next one.

A very quick google search would tell you that AuDHD is not new or a "mega-variety" of anything but merely autism and ADHD combined which is more common that either of them in isolation, and can manifest differently depending on how they interact.