School lateness punishments, neurodiversity and the law

Can you escalate to the head or governors and ask for a reason the loops can't be trialled?

Sounds like a really sensible, workable, easy thing to try that isn't going to impact on anyone else, and it demonstrates that she and you are trying to be solution focused.

If they're worried about them being used as jewellery you can get clear ones that are virtually invisible.

It’s better to miss the last 5 mins of a lesson than be late for the next. That causes more loss of learning to the individual and distraction to others. I can’t believe that some think it’s unreasonable to request this !

Not everyone has spare £1000s they can just pull out of their arse for private doctors. I'm sure if the OP did she would do it- it all sounds very upsetting and stressful.

Why doesn’t she just walk between classes with her friends?

Depends on the business. Not all need cover for completely set hours. Plenty of employers are happy with at least some flexibility in terms of timings. I know where I work there are people who start any time between 7 and 10:30 - as long as they do their hours and work gets done to the required timescales nobody cares when they start or finish. I’ve worked other places with formal flexitime.

And as for the nhs-are doctors ever on time for appointments?!!!!

Well I work in a major govt department with 15,000 employees and we're mostly on flexitime...seems to work out OK for us.

Why don’t you have a look at how many very successful business people, athletes, musicians etc have ADHD? Often they were told at school that they’d amount to nothing.

Speak to the senco, get her assessed for ADHD, ask for support for her etc. I say this because since year 8 my daughter has completely unravelled to the point of complete school refusal. She's just been diagnosed asd. We've only just got to the point where the school are accepting she can't cope and doing everything to help her. Being punished for something you can't help helps nobody

you can’t run a buisness with every Tom dick and Harry saying they can’t be on time due to “maybe ADHD”.

Diagnosis or not, she had a specific difficulty with which she needs support to set up strategies that mean she can manage this. Otherwise you’re saying she should just suck it up and keep getting punished if she’s unable to make the changes necessary. Everyone has things they struggle with and need to a little different to other people. But that doesn’t mean they should help I trying to work out the best way to do it.

Do you take similar issues to lifts and ramps for physical disabilities?
Why not just have stairs and screw disabled people

I don’t really think the idea of using a friend to help is a good one. It’s not the responsibility of another child to manage this.

I was wondering how she has managed in other busy situations that require food timekeeping. Going on holiday, airports, public transport, theme parks, social events, disco parties etc? Is she able to manage in those situations or has she needed some adjustments. Are there any that could be applied in school. I was thinking that leaving the class last might help, corridors would be quieter so could then get to class on time.

Couldn’t agree more. School corridors are difficult for everyone. Lots of aspects of secondary school are difficult.

What about headphones to wear in the corridor?

If you excuse lateness as fine since 'you have ND and therefore can't be relied on to be on time', you're going to have excuse more and more as this becomes a get out of life free card. I'm sorry but no matter how difficult your conditions are, going from one room to the next is not that hard. Yes maybe harder for some but it's not that hard that it becomes impossible for you to do within a reasonable time .

You think both of you have ADHD. So did you make it to lessons on time at school?

Even my autistic DS with 1:1 support who was often off sick knew just to follow his classmates. He would be lost on his own but following others is easy. I think there is something else going on here @VividDenimTiger .

It's striking how on the OP it's stated no diagnosis, school think it's something the teenager can control and so therefore aren't supporting a need for reasonable adjustments and that there's no evidence of disability except for mum asked the GP to refer yet the overwhelming message is she is entitled to a million reasonable adjustments and definitely has additional needs on mum's say so.

Sometimes kids have never had any issues at all until they hit puberty then they start feeling anxious, insecure and disrespecting the rules. Because they're teenagers. People seem to have forgot this and run straight to neurodiversity

Leaving the lesson early is really no big deal at all. It’s ridiculous to suggest it is. As I said before I did this in the 90s when I was at secondary. I was told to choose a seat near the door, all the teachers knew and I left 5 mins early to get to my next lesson while the corridors were quiet. It was a simple and effective strategy.

@VividDenimTiger how did she make it in school before?

ya got it. I thought it’s about being late first thing in the morning 🤷‍♀️

Tricky what to do between lessons.

Practice focussing on the one task for 5 minutes. Visualising at home how she walks from classroom a to classroom b. Thinking about what could disrupt. Make a plan for each disruption. But getting back on track, not paying attention to anything that distracts. That kind of mental practice maybe? Checking at the end of the day and making a big deal out of any success and a new plan for any setbacks

I would ask to have a meeting with the sendco, head of year and schools educational psychologist and use the phrase reasonable adjustments for children on the adhd pathway.
however I don’t understand how you can be late in secondary school surely you walk from one class to the next? She can’t buddy up with friends or try and get to every class after a break five mins early?

It’s sounds like anxiety, but not necessarily related to ADHD. Getting overwhelmed in loud, large, busy spaces is also a trait of agoraphobia (as an example). It sounds like she is getting stressed out and not wanting to walk amongst the crowd.

One thing you could try, is her putting on ear defenders, or earphones with music for the 5min transition between classes. I know it sounds odd, but even something like slipping on a pair of sunglasses could do the trick. If it’s being caused by being overwhelmed with the sensory load, toning down what she can hear and see a notch may just about work.

Another option, if the school will help with this, is if they have any ‘good’ kids/prefects, who would be willing to act as ‘buddy’ to walk with her on class transitions. This would make it a proper task and not reliant on a the kindness of a friend to support…plus the prefect may be able to give a progress report back to the head of year to say whether that type of support is working or not. If having another child being positive/supportive and wanting to walk with her to help her doesn’t work…and that child reports that she is expressing anxiety/panic (rather than obstinacy) that may help build the case with the school that this is not a discipline issue.

i think the problem for the school currently, is that they only have your word for it that this is a discipline issue…they need to see it with their own eyes or have another student verify it. Unfortunately…schools are now in a position generally that whenever a child misbehaves…a parent is likely to make claims of special needs and demand their child is treated differently. Of course, some will need that, but there are a lot that just want to play the system.

Actually OP, I think you’ve possibly done your DD a disservice by describing this as a timekeeping issue.

Yes, timekeeping is hard with ADHD but yes, you do have to learn how to be on time (even if it’s just skidding through the door on time by the skin of your teeth 😂).

However what you’re describing here is actually a sensory overwhelm issue, not organisation or timekeeping. The lateness is the net result, not the problem.

Your DD is actively hiding elsewhere to avoid the noise and crowds because she can’t manage. And then because of that, she’s late.

Talking about time management and neurodivergence on MN is like a red rag to a bull - I’m not reading the thread as I saw it was full of the usual dickish comments. I’m not wasting my energy. I read your comments OP.

Obviously this pattern at school isn’t sustainable, especially as your DD is starting to become a school refuser.

You either:

Home educate

Switch schools - are there any without a waiting list other than the other one you like? Parents may prioritise schools with good exam results but what you need is a school that’s good with SEN; they’re not always the popular ones

Write a letter of complaint to the governors based on the advice you’ve had here (I saw some helpful comments early on - I’m sure there are others mentioning need not diagnosis/SEN code)

You say the school isn’t amenable to options like letting her out a minute early, wearing loop earbuds etc, so I’m not sure what else you can do? The longer it carries on, the worse this is going to become. Sadly, from experience, schools are either good with accommodating SEN or else they never will be. And if they’re the latter, you really are better off cutting your losses and getting out of there asap - even if you home educate for a while.