School lateness punishments, neurodiversity and the law

ADHD, AuADHD family here - you have my sympathy. I appreciate to diagnose ADHD you need a track record of poor exec functions plus schools do need to manage a lots of kids so its tricky ... but it makes my blood boil when I read this sort of stuff as kicking a struggling kid not OK either.

Schools don't give dentition to dyslexic kids for poor spelling but they do give detention to ADHD/AuADHD kids for poor exec functions / sensory overload so basically dentition for showing the traits of their disabilities!

Look at amazon for some noise cancelling ear buds she can pop in during class moves.

Sen team not good speak to the head of year/ school / board and if that's not working go to local MP... common sense must prevail and she would not be the only kid in this situation so they would have experience a GP referral should be enough.

My daughter's school once tried to give her detention for displaying her ADHD traits and I screamed blue murder and they never tried again.

Avoiding having to get from one place to another with a tight deadline whilst navigating a hugely crowded place is something that people can actually plan to avoid doing other than very occasionally if they are so inclined. So maybe once a year at the airport, occasional concerts etc.
Many people chose a job where they can work from home, walk to work, drive door to door or cycle. Personally, I’m ok in crowds, but I’ve made a conscious choice to always work in places that are no more than 45 mins away by bike.

How would something like wearing earplugs be disruptive to everyone else? Yet the school aren’t even allowing that as a trial.

Which would be fine if the wait list for assessment was at all reasonable but as it is years of waiting you cant just leave a pupil unsupported.
Support can not wait because it is well known that the difficulties ND people face get worse if left unsupported

Oh, so you read the OP's posts and failed to understand the issue? Awkward. Here's a hint: its nothing to do with commuting.

All of them surely. Why would they not since it's so easy?

Is there a reason that she doesn’t want to go to the lesson and is procrastinating?

Flexing work is a false equivalence. You can't flex school because the lesson ends at a set time. Flexing work means you end work 8 hours after you started, whenever that start is.
A better equivalent would be "are you allowed to be late for a meeting at 11am every Wednesday?".

But that's the point. There's absolutely no evidence to say that the difficulty is due to disability. The vibe from the school response suggests petulance and mum wanting allowances. There has to be some sort of bar beyond them and their mum just saying they have ADHD. Going and asking the GP to refer to the assessment list and then doing so based on self reporting shouldn't justify disrupting other kids and staff if the school don't support the suggestion it's additional need.

All the more reason to support children at school to find ways of being on time then, surely? If punishments for lateness aren't working, then something else needs to happen. But to find the right strategy, you need to know what's causing the lateness. If a child is hanging around somewhere quiet until the crowd dies down, then it could be sensory, requiring maybe ear defenders. If they're late because they play football and then have to refill their water bottle before the next lesson, then time management is the cause and a strategy would be for the child to set an alarm 5 mins earlier than the end of lunch bell. Lots of children do this naturally, like breathing. Many nd children struggle more and need more scaffolding. It doesn't mean they'll always be late, it means they need more support to be on time than simply 'consequences'. Schools aren't running a business, they're preparing children for life. Punishing them for the things they find more difficult is not preparing them for life. Giving them the tools to overcome the things they find hard is preparing them for life.

@HumberSquidno need to be a dick.

Getting places of time, regardless of how busy it might be, is pretty necessary in adult life if you have a job with a commute. Just one example.

Ok, classmates

I mean it is surprising how many secondary schools actually don't have working lifts/lifts to every part of the building/lifts at all and the difficulties placed in the way of disabled staff also (my friend had to leave classroom teaching for lack of simple adjustments like moving her teaching room to the ground floor).

Not the point of the thread, but it's not straightforward even for the physical disabilities.

I can't name names on here but we're probably the only CS department I can think of which is generally well regarded by the press and public alike and are considered by the govt and internationally to be efficient, well run and value for money.

From who's point of view is it working out OK?

Can you spot the big assumption here?!

If you'd bothered to read the OP's posts, let alone the thread, you'd:

a) understand the problem
b) understand why this is not necessarily an issue in "the real world"

and hopefully

c) refrained from clogging up the thread with your inane and unhelpful "thoughts".

It would be useful to go on the school or academy trust website and find the email for the SEND link governor.

I went to a small private school so never experienced the hell of school corridors. I wrote a post above about my daughter, I attended her school for meetings, trying to navigate corridors with hundreds of kids trying to get to lessons in different parts of a large school campus is not for the faint hearted. It is noisy, hot, overwhelming and claustrophobic. If this child has sensory issues then this simple task probably feels like hell on earth. My daughter was late to lessons as she may finish a lesson at the top of one block then have to get down 5 flights of stairs, walk through another 3 blocks then back up more stairs to her next lesson alongside all the other hundreds of kids trying to get to their lessons. It's not as simple as you are trying to portray for a child with sensory and processing difficulties.

It's not that it's hard to get to the lesson.

It's likely she experiences signicant sensory stress from the crowding on the corridors.

I experience stress on my school's corridors and I'm a 53 year old neurotypical teacher! Kids shout and scream, push and shove and corridors are narrow and often windowless.

I work in an outstanding school with generally excellent behaviour management, but a lot of kids don't know how to behave in groups these days and buildings are cheap, in poor repair and badly designed and built.

The big difference with the holiday/airport/theme park examples is that these tend to be short term uncomfortable whereas school is uncomfortable environment followed by more difficult environments and it's all day everyday

Ie.
Airport is busy but then you are on plane and you have a set seat for a time before you have to deal with busy airport again. You are traveling with family support, in clothing you have chosen that is comfortable. When you arrive at the destination you can relax and destress.

Theme park is busy and difficult but it is one day only and then you can decompress in your own comfortable environment

School.is very different
Uniform can cause sensory difficulties
The classroom can cause anxiety and pressure with learning/being asked questions, expectations
The corridors can be manic, the pressure of finding the right place, the difficulty of finding time to go to the toilet or dealing with public toilets. Peers behaviour, teasing messing about pushing and shoving in corridors
Loud noisy environment

The bus to and from school is unpredictable and noisy
Different types of smells
The worry of getting things wrong, the teacher shouting.

It's not a natural environment and it's relentless everyday.

For NT teens they often just get on with it but ND teens it can cause so many problems.

The timeline @WildTwins suggests is a great idea and will help you with the EHCNA.

In the real world she will have to get places on time. How hard can it be to get to a lesson on time, at a school, when presumably it's all on one site and her
peers are going to the same place?

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/5484488-ehcp-support-thread-no-6?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=app_share

Hi OP, I haven't read the full thread, but if you haven't already requested an EHCNA for your daughter, please do so ASAP. You can do it yourself. You don't have to wait for the school. All the information you need and a template letter is on the IPSEA website.

Regarding the school, they're between a rock and a hard place (as are you). I'm a mum of an AuDHD year 8 girl with an EHCP and also a classroom teacher. With the attendance and achievement pressures on schools, 5-10 minutes late to every lesson is disruptive especially as a surprisingly large fraction of those doing that are up to no good in the toilets or the corridors. Your daughter is at risk from those kids as well as unaccounted for.

I do sympathise as the school.could be doing a LOT more to meet needs and a blanket no is never helpful.

I wonder if they might be more receptive to adjustments being put in place for September if the EHCNA request is in? That would be my focus as a parent in mid June. Is your DD on the waiting list for the other school?

@VividDenimTiger I'm really sorry to hear of your daughter's difficulties with school and the lack of support she is recieving. I am sure I will be repeating alot of comments that have already been made but your daughter sounds so similar to mine. My daughter is about to turn 18 and is just finishing her a levels. From years 7 to 11 she managed to mask at school, found ways to cope, was quiet and hard working and school would not accept that she was struggling. Couldn't get a meeting with ALNCO and was repeatedly told that when questioned none of her teachers raised any issues. We had some issues outside of school that led me to seek a private diagnosis for her, she was very resistant and even the psychiatrist was not convinced she was ASD. On his suggestion she had some CBT sessions with a colleague of his which she found helpful. She started year 12 and the wheels totally came off, anxiety off the scale, very low mood, couldn't eat or sleep, totally overwhelmed. She was referred to CAMHS who didn't offer any real help and she tried medication but had a reaction and couldn't continue with sertraline. At this point I insisted on a meeting with school, I met with her Head of Year and the elusive ALNCO. They agreed to do some tests with her to check her executive function as I said she was struggling to organise herself and was frequently running out of time on tests. Lo and behold she has executive function delay. At this point the support became more forthcoming. Extra time for exams, a card to leave lessons if she felt overwhelmed, could leave lessons a bit early to avoid the crowded corridors and all her teachers were given a One Page Profile outlining her difficulties and the adjustments she was entitled to. It was a battle to get support but the school were on board when they finally recognised she did need help. This was without a formal diagnosis which did come months later after ADOS testing.
My daughter was always very quiet and well behaved and therefore flew under the radar. There are many charities that can give you advice and support on what the school is legally obliged to do to support your daughter. I would seek advice from them so you are clear on what you can push for then insist on a meeting with her Head of Year and SENCO. I made a timeline of all the previous contact id had with school and it turned out I had contacted them 50 times to raise concerns about my daughter, I took this to the meeting and it was quite powerful in demonstrating how long the issues had been going on for.
In the meantime I would look at alternative schools as it's sounds like even if you can force the school to make adjustments for your daughter it does not sound like a supportive environment for her to learn in.
I really wish you well as it is awful to see your child struggling and feel helpless at how to make things better for them.