School lateness punishments, neurodiversity and the law

My disabled children aren’t disruptive, hence they’re fine in mainstream. They aren’t impacting other children’s ability to learn. Those that are need to be educated elsewhere. Children should have a right to learn in peace. Don’t you think that?

It’s illegal for a school to refuse to support a child on the basis that they do not have a formal diagnosis

It will certainly help though. I have 5 kids at various stages of education, 2 ND. This isn’t my first rodeo by any stretch of the imagination.

There are two different reasons for disruption - the kids who are just badly behaved and the ND ones. The ND children who cannot attend normal classes and sit calmly need to be educated elsewhere. The disruption to the other children’s education otherwise is endless.

The badly behaved children - and I’ll don my hard hat before saying this - are less common in middle class catchment areas. Middle class children simply have less traumatic home lives, so this distraction can be mitigated by buying into a leafy catchment. We did this. The difference in attitude and behaviour was astonishing. If children are too badly behaved to sit and learn they really need to be educated elsewhere too though, in PRUs. All children - leafy catchment or not - need a chance to be able to learn in a calm, safe, distraction free environment.

Educational standards are going to plummet if teachers cannot teach and children cannot learn.

Am also assuming that the diagnosis itself wasn’t 5 mins, but observed as likely/pretty definite and confirmed by completion of the subsequent full diagnostic assessment.

But the assessment itself is liberating. Especially amongst late diagnosed women who may have had issues in relationships and holding down jobs and now understand why - earlier diagnosis and the insights it brings could ensure women stay in employment and navigate relationships (especially avoiding potentially toxic ones) more positively. It is not all about school - though the school environment has changed so much that it is no longer a safe, nurturing space for young people now.

I only sought out my diagnosis because my children pestered to know if I was too (we all knew I was) and then because I saw how much medication and coaching/counselling helped them develop strategies to better navigate life. I’ve managed and been relatively successful, but these techniques, self knowledge and access to medication in heavy work/study periods would have made life much less stressful. At times life as been unbearably hard. I think I’d have suffered less from anxiety and depression - and actually had therapy/meds that were more effective with a diagnosis. I hope more women get ADHD/AuDHD/Autism diagnoses sooner so they don’t have to muddle through life like I did.

Suffering? Melodramatic. Sounds like your child just needs a bit of resilience. Have you tried not coddling them so much and expecting them to just get on with it?

Tell her to stop vaping between lessons and get a wriggle on.

Quite a big one since they:

a) don't seem to realise specialist provisions already exist
b) you can't just send your disabled child to one
c) they're not all suitable for all disabled children
d) shoving every disabled child in a 'disabled children's school' would be unlawful and discriminatory
e) not all disabled children require specialist provision or settings, or that their needs can be perfectly well met in a mainstream school who understand and follow the equality act
f) shocker, not all disabled children are disruptive

To ask that question, you’ve clearly never dealt with being unable to manage the most simple of tasks that seemingly everyone else can do (such as being consistently on time, being able to start a task and see it through to the end, “just getting on with stuff” etc), but not really understanding why they can do it and you can’t. These things should be so EASY! What do they know that you don’t? What are you doing wrong? Why are you just doing life wrong?

A diagnosis helps you understand that there are concrete neurological reasons why you can’t do these things. That you’re not just stupid or disorganised, but that your brain works differently. It’s validation of your worth. It also help you then work out how you can do things differently to make sure that you can “do life”. And yes, it helps give you access to reasonable adjustments in the workplace via the Equality Act to help you be successful in the workplace.
It can also be the gateway to medication that is completely life changing for some people.

So that five minute diagnosis is very very important for those that want to seek it.

And that poster thinks sending disabled children elsewhere will magically stop all disruption.

I do wonder what kind of bubble some people live in…

Lucky you that you're so ignorant you think all disabled children should just go to a school for disabled children 😂

I am genuinely interested.

How has this 5 minute diagnosis changed or improved your life?

What's different because if it?

I remember at least 2-3 kids from my year at school that were clearly ND but were just seen as badly behaved and eventually got expelled. I’m sure there were more that didn’t exhibit challenging behaviour but also didn’t get any or got very few GCSE’s because they weren’t supported. These kids were there in the 1970s and 80s. It’s not a new thing.

You haven’t had a child’s suffer through endless disruption then? Lucky you!

🤦🏼‍♀️

Might want to address the behaviour of some kids without disabilities first.

Agree. I read about a primary school recently which had to stop all adjustments to starting time as more pupils had them than were arriving at the normal time. The world has gone bonkers. How did pupils manage without all these adjustments in the 1960s and 1970s?

We need to have schools for those with a disability and schools for those with no disability then. The education of the majority of the children who just want to learn in a safe, calm, distraction free atmosphere shouldn’t be affected by endless comings and goings in the classroom, children that need time out, children that need to leave early, children that can bye sat next to X but not Y, etc etc. teachers need to teach. Pupils need to sit calmly and listen.

Does it? What do hearing-impaired students do then?

what is an acceptable level of adjustment? None at all? Very minor ones?

This reminds me of the type of 'advise' I would get when my one child wasn't sleeping (they have a sleep disorder which is now medicated).

I was surviving on virtually no sleep, my child didn't seem to need to sleep and we we begging for help.

We kept getting the obvious advise.
Bath, relaxing, lighting, story

When your child is having difficulties even if you had grown up under a rock and didn't know the obvious techniques they would come across these on first internet search. If you have to ask it pretty obvious the normal options aren't working

I understand learning difficulties make things harder but you have to find ways around these things and you can't just expect special treatment. If she is consistently late for school investigate why she is late and find ways to remedy it, you can't just say 'oh she is SEN' and ask the school to let it go, they won't. How does she get to school? If she makes her own way, maybe she needs to get up or leave for school earlier. If she is unorganised in the morning maybe she needs to arrange her bag and uniform etc. the night before so she is ready on time to leave for school. If she walks maybe suggest doing the walk with her one weekend to see how long it takes and if she is getting distracted on the way. Is there a schoolmate she can walk with? Can you, a partner or a friend drive her in to make sure she is there on time? Do they run a breakfast club if you need to drop her off early? You can't let this continue, and even if she does have ADHD the school won't accept that as an excuse for persistant tardiness.

Exactly, I went all the way through school being told I was lazy, disorganised, and badly behaved. Not one teacher stopped for a moment to say, "Hey, this child seems to be really trying and want to succeed so why is she always 10 minutes late and bringing the wrong equipment?" I got a diagnosis at 24, it took 5 minutes with a psychiatrist, and 24 years of struggling along, not even masking very well but going unnoticed by "professionals".

Count your lucky stars.
The UK depending where you are could be 4-6 years for ADHD / ASN diagnosis.

So SEN pupils shouldn't have an education?

Maybe if we got schools right for SEN kids it would benefit every child and not disadvantage huge numbers of SEN and/or disabled pupils.

And other teachers may have disagreed because they are NOT medical experts and can NOt diagnose.

Teachers often don't see ND because they are NOT ND experts. They also can not diagnose a broken leg, deafness, blindness or anything else.

They may suspect and the may advise a referral but they can not diagnose.
They may think bob is hearing and be wrong b cause they are not doctors