School lateness punishments, neurodiversity and the law

Hi OP, gosh your DD sounds quite like my DS. I really feel for you. Our school weren't that supportive, but they were more supportive that yours. He went through a period of being late/missing classes/anxiety nose bleeds. He would hide at lunchtime because the dining room was too much. He had a lot of anxiety. We got his diagnosis privately and then got a care share agreement with our GP. He was diagnosed with ADHD years before this started, though. I think there may be a bit of mild autism as well, although it is subclinical.

DS benefited from positive hypnotherapy, to help bring his anxiety down but also try to think more positively. A lot of what us ADHDs go through can really effect the self esteem, which can effect ones anxiety. Can your daughter try Loop ear plugs just to bring down the noise?

the use of the punishment room isn't working nor is getting anyone anywhere so it needs to be reviewed.
schools have to address and support needs, support should not be withheld on the basis of no diagnostic yet.
is there a head of year or head of middle school you could escalate this to ? or a governor covering SEN ?

I get why the school has a lateness policy, but it sounds like your daughter is struggling rather than being deliberately late. If the punishment is making her more anxious and putting her off school, it doesn't seem to be helping anyone. Letting her leave a minute early to avoid the crowds feels like a fairly reasonable compromise to me. Sometimes a bit of understanding can achieve more than another detention.

OFFS

We had one like that, no business being sendco if they can't read and can't follow the law. Ours moved on and the next one was able to keep my next kid in school.

Can I ask if you have thought about something like a private educational psychologist report and then moving on from there? I know they are expensive but can be invaluable. Also you can also lobby your LEA if you don't think your getting anywhere with the school.

It’s almost like they’re unaware of the increased suicide risk in ND people, mainly because they can’t fucking “cope” and have destroyed their mental health trying.

You need to draft an email saying that by refusing to discuss her needs without a diagnosis they are in breach of the Equality Act and if they continue you will consult a lawyer- and mean it.

This young woman has managed 4 years in what sounds like a not particularly inclusive secondary and presumably 7 years in primary before that. How's that "withdrawing from society"?

Many didn’t cope either. Even in the past, the rate of suicide and contact with the justice system was higher in those with a ND condition. The rate of employment was still lower than the rest of the population.

Some who did cope, coped because the education system was different to what it is now.

OP has asked for reasonable adjustments. That is how she knows the school will not allow Loops and will not allow DD to move 1 min early.

Nope, coping is not 'good enough'. What a ridiculous thing to say.

Did she actually ask for reasonable adjustments because reading the thread back it sounds abit like 5min chat senco and oh on the waiting list for adhd? Spoken to school is a very vague term.
I'm annoyed with the way some SEN parents are portrayed on this thread which is mainly for the worst. Some of us have done so much work to get our kids to the next level that is has become another job. And then other people come in and tell us we have no idea what we are talking about.

In some cases, cope would be more accurate than thrive. But coping is good enough. It's better than completely withdrawing from society.

If no-one's got a name for why you find certain things harder than other people, what other option have you got than to get on with it?! I don't think thriving comes into it.

Something that's really common is adults only realising they're neurodiverse when their children are diagnosed. You hear some sad stories

Thrive is very definitely not the word I would use in a lot of cases. If that's the impression you have then you've willfully fooled yourself into thinking all is well because it's more comfortable for you to think that.

I'm not sure how that's relevant? She's spoken to school to ask for adjustments and they so no. What else can she do? What possible reason would they have for refusing a child loops to help manage the noise on transition around the school?

I've had mixed experiences with schools. Some have been fine, some great. One which had two of my children was absolutely horrendous. Refused to acknowledge their Sen and refused to implement any support. One was only supported once they moved to high school who immediately applied for an EHCP. The other I ended up at tribunal for refusal to assess for an EHCP. The judge said the LA must assess as it was clear school had not, and had no intention of doing assess, plan, do review.

If SLT/the senco isn't supportive you can have the nicest teachers in the world but their hands will be tied.

Try reading what is actually posted. I have not written a “a list of excuses because teachers are so unreasonable carry on.” Nowhere have I said “every single teacher in your school is unsupportive or won't speak to you” either. Not all schools are supportive of SEN. Anyone who knows the first thing about the SEN system knows that.

My DC with SEN are actually well supported (Although only one in school now because two of them have now EOTAS/EOTIS.) but I have supported thousands of parents over the years and in some cases, yes, no-one in the school will work with the parents. Sometimes the school won’t even acknowledge the CYP has SEN. My DC being well supported doesn’t mean I don’t understand not all have such a positive experience with their DC’s school.

Do you know what? I was on the SEN register at school, diagnosed with dyslexia at a time it wasn't recognised in schools and possibly have adhd and autism. I have then taken two kids through the system also on the SEN register. I don't need to validate myself to you. If you want to write down a list of excuses because teachers are so unreasonable carry on.
I have just been on the phone to my oldest friend, a teacher who has four autistic children who pointed out to me that teachers are humans who want a peaceful classroom. I find it really hard to believe every single teacher in your school is unsupportive or won't speak to you. But happy to admit I maybe wrong.

Some people have always been "neuro diverse". In the past they just got on with things for the most part and were able to thrive in life. Nowadays they are told that the world is against them, that everything is unfair, and that employers should make allowances for them. Employers just want to employ someone who can get the job done. So the "neuro-diverse" suffer. But there's a whole industry built up around it full of people getting rich off the back of telling everyone what they want to hear. It stinks really.

I didn’t suggest you can’t say that. But asking doesn’t mean it will happen. In some schools, they wouldn’t speak more another day. Even when they do, it doesn’t mean the school is willing to work with you on SEN Support. Like @RudolphTheReindeer said, it is clear you have never experienced a school who doesn’t want to work with you.

Five minutes in a parents evening is long enough to say you are worried and would like to catch up with the teacher another day. Actually ridiculous to suggest you can't.

@aCatCalledFawkes everything you mention can be done without the school working with parents, though. And not everything you list happens at other schools.

• Teachers’ email addresses - some schools do not give out teachers’ email addresses, so no, it isn’t a matter of surely OP has them.
• Parents' evening - often 5 mins. Nowhere near enough time for DC with SEN. Doesn’t actually mean the school will work with the parent to provide SEN Support.
• School reports - A report that happens for all pupils doesn’t mean SEN Support is provided.
• Feedback from tutors - not all schools provide this. In some schools, parents' evening doesn’t cover tutors. Even when feedback is given, it doesn’t mean the school is willing to work with the parent around SEN Support.
• Feedback from pastoral care - As above. In some schools, parents' evening doesn’t cover pastoral support. In some schools, SEN reviews don’t happen or don't happen as often as they should. In some schools, the pastoral team doesn't work with all DC with SEN. Even when feedback is given, it doesn’t mean the school is willing to work with the parent around SEN Support.
• Detentions require you to speak to school - not in many schools they don’t. Many schools just send a notification home. I know a couple who don’t even do that unless it is an after-school detention.
• Suspensions require you to speak to school - sadly, it isn’t unheard of for schools not to hold reintegration meetings. Even when they are held, it doesn’t mean a school will be willing to work with parents to put in place SEN Support.

Surely OP has things like parents evening, school reports, feedback from tutors and pastoral care, email addresses to teachers which are also touch points in to the school as well as SEN. Even detentions and suspensions require you to speak to school. Or does her school not do any of these?

I have had two kids go through the SEN system at our local comp, and it took a lot more than an email to SEN to get anywhere. OP hasn't actually said what else she has done other than just go straight to senco or try to get her daughter removed from the punishments because she on the waiting list for adhd.

I do love a good ' you just need to work with school' post from someone who's clearly never experienced a school that isn't remotely interested in working with parents or students. I feel for you @VividDenimTiger!

No one with spd would have the capacity for such learning. OPs dd is clearly struggling with sensory processing difficulties in the corridors not 'just' adhd.