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SEN

Here you'll find advice from parents and teachers on special needs education.

Original poster

Is this an illegal/informal exclusion?

205 replies

Pressthespacebar · 13/05/2025 07:42

My son is in reception and has been put on a reduced timetable (9-12) since the second half of the spring term, following an exclusion of 4 days. The head basically said to me that unless he went on a reduced timetable the risk of him being permanently excluded is higher.

My son has a learning delay and they said developmentally he's around 2 in some areas, they also say he probably has ADHD and PDA is something that has been mentioned recently.

Ehcp has just been sent off for and appointment at the doctor's is booked so we can go down the right to choose pathway.

I assumed the reduced timetable would be temporary but the school have not contacted me to increase his hours and the last couple of weeks I've been trying to get a meeting sorted they keep coming up with excuses and saying they'll get back to me.

Im aware my son is a handful but he is entitled to a full time education. Has anyone else been through this and what happened?

OP posts:
perpetualplatespinning · 13/05/2025 09:22

If DS turned 5 in February, he is already compulsory school age.

Alternative provision isn’t one set place. It can be any provision that is suitable. Sometimes it is provided in a PRU. Sometimes it isn’t. It could be at home, at a tuition centre, at an AP like a care farm or forest school or... There are loads of options. The LA has a duty to ensure DS receives a suitable full-time education. If the PRU wouldn’t be suitable, and it is highly unlikely it would be from what you describe, something else must be provided to fulfil their duty.

It’s not illegal to have reduced timetable in these circumstances.

It is an unlawful informal exclusion. Part-time timetables should not be used to manage behaviour as per the statutory working together to improve attendance guidance and the statutory suspension and permanent exclusion guidance. OPs’ DS has a right to attend school full-time unless formally suspended or permanently excluded.

Original poster
Pressthespacebar · 13/05/2025 09:22

I just don't know what to do with him, he got excluded from pre school at 2 and went to a forest school at 3 who would only take him for half a day.

He's just as bad as home, I have other children and he is terrible with them. I just feel lost with it all, when will it end 😭

OP posts:
Nominative · 13/05/2025 09:20

SunnyViper · 13/05/2025 09:14

The OP states that the EHCP has been applied for. My guess would be that the school can’t meet need and a special school placement will be required. It’s not illegal to have reduced timetable in these circumstances.

Show quote history

It is illegal if it is not being regularly reviewed and kept to a minimum period. Having SEN does not deprive a child of their right to full time education. Have a look at https://www.gov.uk/administrative-appeals-tribunal-decisions/f-t-v-the-governors-of-hampton-dene-primary-school-sen-2016-ukut-468-aac

Original poster
Pressthespacebar · 13/05/2025 09:18

perpetualplatespinning · 13/05/2025 08:57

It is an unlawful informal exclusion. As some previous posters have posted, a part-time timetable should not be used to manage behaviour. The statutory working together to improve attendance guidance is explicitly clear about that. Even when part-time timetables are used they should be reviewed regularly, in place for the shortest time possible and expectation is they will then move to attending full-time or alternative provision made as well part time school or instead of attending school.

If you want DS to attend full-time, he can, unless the school is formally suspending him or permanently excludes him. Don’t worry if they do suspend. A formal suspension instead of an unlawful, informal exclusion will a) provide you with evidence of unmet needs to support you pursuing an EHCP, b) force the school to follow due process, c) limit the number of days the school can suspend for, d) allow you to challenge any suspension, and e) ensure DS receives alternative education for longer suspensions if he is already compulsory school age (is he already 5 and if so when did he turn 5?)

If instead you don’t think DS is able to cope with attending full time, if he is compulsory school age, have you requested alternative provision from the LA? IPSEA has a model letter you can use.

He turned 5 in February.

I haven't requested alternative provision, is that where they go to a place for children who've Ben excluded/at risk of exclusion? I did mention that at the last meeting but they said they only knew of one child who went there and it wasnt a nice place.

OP posts:
Horticula · 13/05/2025 09:18

Caravaggiouch · 13/05/2025 08:46

Yes sounds like the school are acting for their benefit, and presumably the benefit of the staff he attacked and the other 29 children in the class.

This, this, this.
When my son started school there was a child who behaved like this, he also attacked other pupils in the class. The disruption that one child caused had a massive effect, parents were complaining to the school and children were scared to go to school because of him. It was a massive relief when he left after a few months.

DoubleShotEspresso · 13/05/2025 09:18

Nominative · 13/05/2025 08:21

Yes, it's an illegal exclusion. Government guidance is clear that a reduced timetable should only be used in restricted circumstances and for the minimum time possible. They should be looking at getting advice on how to deal with your son, putting in extra support, and applying for an EHCP. Leaving a child without full time education for a long time due to his SEN is also disability discrimination: if they think he won't cope in school they should be working with the LA for him to have tuition during the periods when he is out of school.

I'd suggest you look at applying for an EHCP yourself, and ask for a meeting with the school to talk about integrating him back into full time education. Refer them to paragraph 30 of this guidance and paragraphs 66-67 of

Edited

The first accurate advice here so far! 👏🏼

Nominative · 13/05/2025 09:18

Emanresuunknown · 13/05/2025 09:06

But OP you have to ask yourself why he becomes destructive - it's a sign he's not coping, that there are too many demands on him that he can't handle.

Tbh you sound like you a minimising things - you describe him as a 'bit of handful' then describe a very destructive situation where he's literally pulled furniture off the wall and attacked a teacher. That is way way beyond a 'bit of a handful'. Imagine if another child had been sat by that wall unit and had it pulled down on top of them?

Yes your child has a right to an education but surely not at the expense of the safety of those around him?

It sounds like they've reduced his timetable to try and ensure he's only in school for the part of the day he's happy and coping, then goes home at the point it becomes too much.

Show quote history

That isn't good enough when it mean he is missing out on vital education and falling behind - which will only make it more difficult for him to cope. If he isn't coping, they should be looking at putting more support in place so that he can cope, and applying for an EHC needs assessment.

Nominative · 13/05/2025 09:16

tripleginandtonic · 13/05/2025 08:53

It's not to his benefit to trash a school or hurt the teaching staff. Might be worth looking at non mainstream, that might suit his needs better.
If he is coping with the three hours he has, could you maybe suggest he goes after lunch say, to see how he copes with that.

He won't get into a specialist school unless and until he has an EHCP.

Nominative · 13/05/2025 09:14

Renabrook · 13/05/2025 08:43

What law, not just what you hear in media please provide details where a child injuring a teacher means the child can cope with 5 days a week?

Show quote history

The Education Act 1996 and the Equality Act 2010. Statutory guidance is also quoted upthread.

SunnyViper · 13/05/2025 09:14

Nominative · 13/05/2025 08:21

Yes, it's an illegal exclusion. Government guidance is clear that a reduced timetable should only be used in restricted circumstances and for the minimum time possible. They should be looking at getting advice on how to deal with your son, putting in extra support, and applying for an EHCP. Leaving a child without full time education for a long time due to his SEN is also disability discrimination: if they think he won't cope in school they should be working with the LA for him to have tuition during the periods when he is out of school.

I'd suggest you look at applying for an EHCP yourself, and ask for a meeting with the school to talk about integrating him back into full time education. Refer them to paragraph 30 of this guidance and paragraphs 66-67 of

Edited

The OP states that the EHCP has been applied for. My guess would be that the school can’t meet need and a special school placement will be required. It’s not illegal to have reduced timetable in these circumstances.

ChimpanzeeThatMonkeyNews · 13/05/2025 09:13

Ablondiebutagoody · 13/05/2025 08:49

What was the reason for the 4 day exclusion?

The OP has explained that up thread.

He had a ‘bad day’, and attacked a teacher.

Ablondiebutagoody · 13/05/2025 09:10

That is quite the afternoon. I imagine that even if the school could spare a TA, they are not willing to do it. I wouldn't

Emanresuunknown · 13/05/2025 09:06

Pressthespacebar · 13/05/2025 08:28

The thing is he does like school. He gets excited to go, sometimes messes about going in but in general wants to go.

My gut feeling is he is fine being there all day but they can't cope with him. He's too hyper, he needs one on one else he ends up being destructive. I feel like they're doing it for their benefit and not his.

But OP you have to ask yourself why he becomes destructive - it's a sign he's not coping, that there are too many demands on him that he can't handle.

Tbh you sound like you a minimising things - you describe him as a 'bit of handful' then describe a very destructive situation where he's literally pulled furniture off the wall and attacked a teacher. That is way way beyond a 'bit of a handful'. Imagine if another child had been sat by that wall unit and had it pulled down on top of them?

Yes your child has a right to an education but surely not at the expense of the safety of those around him?

It sounds like they've reduced his timetable to try and ensure he's only in school for the part of the day he's happy and coping, then goes home at the point it becomes too much.

MellowPinkDeer · 13/05/2025 09:01

Pressthespacebar · 13/05/2025 07:59

Sorry I meant to include why he was excluded.

He basically just had a really bad afternoon and his behaviour escalated, he was running around the library and no one could catch him, he got into the trophy cabinet and then ripped down a wall unit. When the teacher finally got hold of him he pulled her hair and scratched her.

I understood why the timetable was out in place but I thought they would be gradually increasing it to get him used to full days again.

From what I've googled this is illegal, was just wondering if anyone else had been through it.

@Ablondiebutagoody

perpetualplatespinning · 13/05/2025 08:57

It is an unlawful informal exclusion. As some previous posters have posted, a part-time timetable should not be used to manage behaviour. The statutory working together to improve attendance guidance is explicitly clear about that. Even when part-time timetables are used they should be reviewed regularly, in place for the shortest time possible and expectation is they will then move to attending full-time or alternative provision made as well part time school or instead of attending school.

If you want DS to attend full-time, he can, unless the school is formally suspending him or permanently excludes him. Don’t worry if they do suspend. A formal suspension instead of an unlawful, informal exclusion will a) provide you with evidence of unmet needs to support you pursuing an EHCP, b) force the school to follow due process, c) limit the number of days the school can suspend for, d) allow you to challenge any suspension, and e) ensure DS receives alternative education for longer suspensions if he is already compulsory school age (is he already 5 and if so when did he turn 5?)

If instead you don’t think DS is able to cope with attending full time, if he is compulsory school age, have you requested alternative provision from the LA? IPSEA has a model letter you can use.

Bestfootforward11 · 13/05/2025 08:55

You might have already looked at this weblink but lots of helpful info:
www.ipsea.org.uk

tripleginandtonic · 13/05/2025 08:53

It's not to his benefit to trash a school or hurt the teaching staff. Might be worth looking at non mainstream, that might suit his needs better.
If he is coping with the three hours he has, could you maybe suggest he goes after lunch say, to see how he copes with that.

Fusedspur · 13/05/2025 08:51

Don’t look at the exclusion as anything more than evidence that his needs are not being met.

You have a hard road ahead. Buckle up and do as much reading and training (IPSEA, SOSSEN) as possible and start looking NOW at more suitable settings. This one won’t come good.

Ablondiebutagoody · 13/05/2025 08:49

What was the reason for the 4 day exclusion?

Bluevelvetsofa · 13/05/2025 08:48

It’s correct to say that any reduced timetable should be tightly time controlled and with very clear strategies to reduce the number of incidents that lead to the type of behaviour OP has described.

What support has the school put in place?
What triggers have been noted for the challenging behaviour?
How long has this behaviour been happening?

He’s entitled to a full time education, but it has to be adapted to meet his learning and behaviour needs and to enable him to progress. An EHCNA will hopefully point towards the best type of setting for him and the support he needs.

Caravaggiouch · 13/05/2025 08:46

Yes sounds like the school are acting for their benefit, and presumably the benefit of the staff he attacked and the other 29 children in the class.

Renabrook · 13/05/2025 08:43

Nominative · 13/05/2025 08:29

Even when that education professional is breaking the law?

Show quote history

What law, not just what you hear in media please provide details where a child injuring a teacher means the child can cope with 5 days a week?

ComeAsYouAreAsAFriend · 13/05/2025 08:43

It is not the right school for him so I would stop wasting time trying to get his hours increased and spend it fighting for a place in a more appropriate environment where you son can cope better

PostmanPatAlwaysRingsTwice · 13/05/2025 08:41

Poor teacher.
They may not have the staff to provide a one-to-one.

Zanatdy · 13/05/2025 08:38

Sounds like he needs a 1-2-1 but they won’t get funding for this yet. Speak to them about when he will be full time. When my friend’s non verbal autistic DD started school they had her on a reduced timetable until the March. Friend had to go off sick from work as at first it was 8.45-10, and gradually increased. Seemed crazy as she had been doing 8-6pm at nursery but they didn’t have enough 1-2-1 staff to cope.