School have queried autism but I just can’t see it.

Hi OP

Great to hear your DD is getting on much better, irrespective of whether she is/isn’t autistic the previous situation was clearly having a massive impact on her wellbeing.

At our end, I’ve been working on supporting DD to feel more in control of her emotions, and it seems to be going well. We’ve had a big improvement in some areas, such as managing embarrassment if she feels she’s ‘failed’ in front of an audience, and the few episodes of getting totally overwhelmed by tearfulness when she has a small argument with me/her dad/her sibling also seem to have totally subsided. Lots of this has coincided with her stepping back from a friendship that was very intense, which probably has something to do with it! She is still definitely sensitive, but seems a bit more levelled out.

We’ve got parents evening soon so I’m planning on checking in with her teacher to see what he thinks/whether he’s noticed any improvement. From a home perspective we still don’t think her personality quirks are of a nature/degree to indicate ADHD and id be doubtful about her meeting diagnostic thresholds due to no objective impact on functioning, but we will continue to be open minded about what school say as they are seeing her in a very different setting. I’m still very keen to avoid unnecessary assessments or contact with services where possible so would only be going down that avenue if she was struggling in some way….. so hopefully school confirm that she isn’t at parents eve!

Sorry to hear the school situation didn’t improve OP, sounds like you’ve probably had a stressful couple months trying to resolve it. Thank you for coming back to update following the chat with your colleague, I found the point about emotional reactivity particularly interesting, and I liked the psychological formulation style you used to work through your daughter’s situation - it prompted me to go back and do something similar for my DDs situation.

Yes, it was me who flagged the giftedness stuff, glad it was helpful, and thank you for sharing the link. Giftedness traits definitely seemed to resonate more than ADHD for us, at least for the time being.

good luck with the new school and job/s, your DD is very lucky to have a parent who is such a strong advocate for her, fingers crossed it all goes smoothly for you all :)

Giftedness and ASD have some similarities and often co-exist but are also very distinct - a gifted person is likely to be different from their neuro-typical and neuro-diverse peers. As posted earlier, I didn't recognise dd's ASD when she was very young, but since primary school and especially after moving to secondary it's become very obvious. So we moved her from a highly academically oriented school (e.g. had coaching for maths, chemistry and physics olympiad-teams and individuals to compete in national and international finals) that was too much of a sensory challenge to a school set up for neurodivergent pupils but she still feels socially as isolated and different there than at her previous school. We just hope that 'giftedness' is a lot like precociousness, so she will fit in better once her peers mature and catch up. She often asks to do her GCSEs and A levels early, as she is bored to death in school and basically has stopped attending lessons, but if she would struggle socially and sensory-wise at uni at 18, I can't see her fitting in at 15 or 16, so we'll basically have settled on hibernating for a couple of years in the hope to wake up to a socially and academically better fitting world at some point. Her best relationships are with adults, she is very close to her piano teacher and former head of music and those are the only people she'll chat to and get out of the house to meet and feel excited to see, so I have hope she'll grow out of it - or more precisely, her peers will grow out of it 😀

Also in my experience it would be pretty impossible to receive an "incorrect" autism diagnosis. The process is extremely rigorous and based on extensive first hand observation from two different experienced clinicians (such as a paediatrician and an SLT) as well as all the history and reporting from parents and teachers. The clinicians have a duty to identify other possible causes for anything they observe, so other causes are absolutely something that will be within their thinking. I know several people who have been asked to watch and wait, come back in 6 months to assess further, if the current evidence is not clear. I do not believe you would get a diagnosis unless it was very clear cut.

Hello, I just wanted to add a few things that might be helpful...
I was absolutely convinced for so long that my daughter could not be autistic because of the ingrained stereotypes most of us have about autism. I still think many people don't believe it even though we have a diagnosis now, but they do not see or understand everything we do. The NHS pediatrician as well as her OT did not think she was likely to be autistic but did still refer her. Even many professionals do not understand autism well in girls.
High anxiety is one of the main hallmarks in my experience. There are also many contradictions between stereotype and reality. For example, many people assume autistic people have trouble feeling or expressing empathy. In reality the opposite can be true, and many autistic people particularly girls experience "hyper empathy" which you can look up. This is where you are so in tune with the emotions of others it can feel deeply exhausting and painful at times. I believe this is part of the hyper vigilance that can come with autism.
The Autistic Girls Network is a valuable resource. Look up their white paper "autism, girls and keeping it all inside" for some good information on identifying autism in girls.
I believe in the importance of my daughter growing up with an understanding of her neurotype, why she may find certain things more difficult, how to advocate and make allowances for herself, and to know there are plenty of other autistic girls like her, which is why I believe it can be important to pursue a diagnosis.

I read your post with interest. I have a son who, in year 6 at school presented as very anxious, sometimes tearful and the teacher was on about his mental health and anxiety all the time.
The reason was her. She was a very critical teacher who basically made his life a misery. Since leaving that teacher three years ago he’s a different child (in fact was a different child the minute the year ended)
My reason for saying this is, it’s so great that schools focus on mental health, diagnosis etc but sometimes there is a more simple explanation such as friendship dramas or a crappy mean teacher.

I remember having an awful job once (with a horrendous bullying boss) and it made me feel so down and unhappy, I would cry on the way home, cry on Sunday nights etc but as soon as I left, I was totally fine and have never felt like that again.

Hi OP,

Just as a bit of an update, I had a meeting with DDs teacher the other week. It was really reassuring in that he stressed that him raising neurodiversity was just about touching base to see whether it’s something I had observed at home, rather than there being an unambiguous indication in the classroom. He suggested DD presents similarly to 2 girls he taught previously who both went on to get an ADHD diagnosis, mostly in how her resilience/self esteem is quite low and she can quickly get upset. He didn’t actually raise anything around attention strangely, and said no concerns with social development or behaviour, stressing that they didn’t have any concerns at all about DD. She has friends at school and is hitting ‘greater depth’ in each area of her report, so if there is any inattentiveness then I would struggle to interpret that as being of a level that is impacting on her functioning.

We have decided just to watch and wait as I’m just not convinced it’s ADHD, and coming from a clinical background I have some concerns about the future implications of having input from services/diagnostic overshadowing/iatrogenic harm. If there was a clear need/impairment then the balance would potentially tip for me, but as her presentation could just be personality and the fact she moved to the school 18 months ago, I don’t think the value in seeking a diagnoses justifies the potential risk when she is functioning well.

DDs teacher has been so supportive about classroom strategies to improve resilience, and from a home perspective I’m going to work on encouraging some deeper friendships, along with continuing to model failing at things (plenty of opportunities for that!!!) and encouraging her to talk about things she’s struggling with.

How are things with you and your DD? Did you manage to have a chat with your colleague who specialises in this area?

Wondering what would be the downside to popping her on the NHS waitlist? Also, wondering what the school can/should be doing about the bullying in the meantime? What would be the positives to a diagnosis? Would it be that your daughter would be able to understand why she is different?
It’s such a tricky one. My son is autistic and I am starting to realise I am possibly too. Your post makes me reflect a lot of my childhood experiences. Good academics, deeply empathetic, wants friends but struggles to form last friendships. I appeared shy and was bullied, mostly not in front of teachers. I didn’t understand unfairness (natural sense of justice) and cried when my granny trimmed flowers as I felt it hurt them. Perhaps NT people sense ND people’s differences. I was born premature but met milestones and was not a fussy baby. My son was the opposite! Born late, late milestones and very fussy baby. It’s so hard because with girls so much is felt internally.

Hi OP,

Sounds really positive that you will have the opportunity to have an informal chat with a specialist, hopefully they are able to give you some reassurance either way, and I would interested to hear what you take away from that discussion if it feels appropriate to share.

I have a meeting with the school this week, they are great and I have a lot of respect for DDs teacher so am doing my best to go in open minded and just hear what their concerns are.

like you I’m going back and forth around the possibility of neurodivergence. over the past couple of weeks when we have had issues that I previously would have attributed to sensitivity/perfectionism (eg an OTT reaction to losing a tennis match because she missed the final serve, or crying after I’ve gotten slightly frustrated with her), I’m now second guessing myself and wondering if I should be considering ND. But then at other times I see her quirks as within the range of NT behaviour and think she is growing out of some of the behaviours, and that I shouldn’t be using diagnostic terminology to conceptualise her personality - eg I fell down a rabbit hole this week wondering whether her sensitivity and perfectionism could be classed as ‘rejection sensitivity dysphoria’ which often indicates ADHD. Basically im just overthinking everything and torturing myself about the impact of making the wrong choice for her!!!

Hi OP,

Wondering where you are with your thoughts on your situation now you’ve had a few weeks to process things? We are in a very similar situation- I’m a mental health nurse so have some knowledge around autism/adhd, but school suggested neurodiversity for 8yo DD at parents evening a few weeks back and it just doesn’t seem to match my understanding of my child. Im worried about things going down this pathway and DD potentially being labelled with something incorrectly, but I don’t want to discount the school’s concerns if there is stuff going on that I’m just not aware of.

Im going to speak to school to ask for a meeting to get a better understanding of how she is presenting at school, as mindful this might be very different to how she is at home. But my DD sounds very similar to yours, doing well academically, a sensitive soul with a strong sense of empathy, no special interests but a wide range of things she loves, no developmental delays in infancy, very social and confident, good language skills, can shift concentration between things. She has had very positive friendships throughout her life, but we moved to this area 18 months ago and I’m not sure if she’s managed to recreate that here :( however she is happy at school and does have some more superficial friendships, I notice friendship issues have a huge impact on her though when there are problems.

I’ve been scouring relevant mumsnet threads for others’ experiences, and ended up following a recommendation to read a google books preview of a book about how gifted children can be misdiagnosed as neurodivergent. The descriptions in the book really resonated, much more so than neurodivergence…. although I wouldnt have called DD gifted, just bright, but now wondering if I’ve missed something. Anyway the link if you are interested is: https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=NQrtt-peg5AC&pg=PA2&source=kp_read_button&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&gboemv=1&ovdme=1&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false

My DDs were diagnosed with autism at 17 and 13. Most people don't see it - because they mask and behave well. But they are both affected more significantly than we anticipated. For many bright girls, puberty is when it starts to become more obvious that "they aren't like the other kids", to quote what I was told.... They learn coping strategies, they copy the other kids at school so fit in to a certain extent. But as the other kids get older and more complex social interactions take place, they struggle to keep up.

For my older daughter, it was actually that she gravitated towards the other girls in her year group who were also autistic - though we didn't know it at the time. So they were all similarly quirky. And didn't stand out against each other....

Then things that didn't matter when they were little become more important. I would arrange play dates with other parents - still do! Growing independence doesn't always happen in the same way.

I would say keep an open mind and if the school are willing to refer, you have nothing to lose. You may find that things get harder and by the time you actually get an appointment, you may need it more.

Meanwhile, ask school to put support in place for social interactions - most schools have a programme for this.

Sounds a lot like my daughter with adhd

Just some points why I didn't spot my dd autism: in young children, social anxiety is often seen as just being shy and my dd was always very sporty and physically brave, so would play with others jumping off drop slides, ride her bike etc. Her special interests are maths, music and Taylor Swift - every parent and teacher is happy when a child does their maths homework and many girls follow TS and sing along to her songs. Girls often mask at school and are very well behaved, polite, try their hardest to get along with classmates and often with their parents, too. But your dd reminds me more of my ds who has both ASD and ADHD. Both conditions mask each other, and like your dd, my ds is very empathetic, super caring, etc but almost obsessive about his feelings and concerns for others - it's like his feelings and concerns fir others are his special interests, and obviously adhd and autism make regulating emotions very difficult, while the autism makes navigating friendships very difficult and social interactions very exhausting.

I would definitely go for an assessment. My dd is textbook autistic and looking back, I now see so many signs. But despite it being 'so obvious', until she was almost 10 years old it never crossed my mind, and I'm a SEND governor and working with neurodiverse and dementia patients all day. For girls, it seems so often the transition to senior school at 11 years old when it starts to become obvious/a 'problem' with school refusal/burnout/meltdowns, so being aware of it beforehand is an advantage.

I suppose it’s difficult as she is an only child.
So she doesn’t have to accommodate siblings within the family group everyday. She will have the saying on every day life regarding you and what your preparing for her dinner she won’t have to accommodate people within the family unit (I think that’s when I notice the difference)

However is she dominate / controlling about her needs / her food / her timings? Does she worry and dominate what you do with her - where you go - what not what to say to others - eg in a restaurant not to complain if service is slow. Body language too does she look anxious? Or selective mute / hiding in social situations

I suppose your daughter hasn’t got too much into sport being young but it could be controlling how you park the car, where you park the car and the time to leave for a sports match….. trying to dominate everything so not malicious but just controlling as that’s the way to ease things.

It’s absolutely amazing the school is supporting this as usually they are useless (only been in the private mainstream system and multiple schools as I’ve got lots of children but seen lots of private indies and 2 ASD children)

If your child isn’t happy at this school just move her…..

She is young so happiness is key

My daughter's psychiatrist tells me that it is quite hard to tell the difference between girls with a high IQ, and girls with autism. They have a lot of characteristics in common. Especially at that age. I suspect things may become a little clearer as she gets older.

My DD wasn’t diagnosed until she was 16. By the time she was diagnosed I was expecting it but it took quite a few years to get to that point. It was like bringing all the pieces of a jigsaw puzzle together and finally getting the picture. I work with primary school aged children so, like you, I thought I would have seen the signs. But when DD was 7 I didn’t notice anything unusual either. She was also part of a toxic friendship group with bullying, very similar to your description. She is still traumatised by that over five years later so I would really push hard for that to be addressed.
i would listen to school and if they are suggesting an assessment, go with it, your daughter will be the same person with or without a diagnosis but it might save you a lot of heartache further down the line. We hit crisis point before we were listened to sadly.