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Original poster

Annual review and saying provision not suitable for upcoming year

28 replies

Lesley25 · 27/08/2024 07:08

My DS is almost 16.
This has been a long time coming and I had hoped I would get to residential college at 18, but it’s obvious we can’t cope at home with social services saying they cannot increase respite as there is no availability , and Ds current educational provision hasn’t had a SALT since January. Combined with the fact DS refuses carers and has regressed in skills, isolated at home , and I can’t do this for another 2/3 years.

all the therapists involved with DS are all aware of the failings I’ve mentioned above, annual review is October, do I have to start saying now on the paperwork that I will be saying the current provision isn’t suitable and name a residential school?

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Original poster
Lesley25 · 02/09/2024 13:56

I agree and it means his EHCP will be so much more detailed and an accurate reflection of what he needs.

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EndlessLight · 02/09/2024 11:38

Brilliant. Their assessments will help. Not just in the pursuit of a residential placement, but in understanding DS.

Original poster
Lesley25 · 02/09/2024 10:34

Thank you @EndlessLight
I have secured the ISW & EP from the contacts you supplied , and fingers crossed for the rest. I’ve decided to go with the Sendist SALT. I’ve made sure they all have SENDIST experience.

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EndlessLight · 02/09/2024 10:01

It doesn’t matter you won’t have the reports for the AR. You are playing the long game of preparing for tribunal. Circulate what you have at least 2 weeks before the AR, but don’t worry about not having the independent reports. You would probably need to appeal even if you did have them. It doesn’t matter if you don’t have them by the time you appeal either. You can send further evidence later in the process.

Original poster
Lesley25 · 02/09/2024 08:46

Ok got it. That’s very clear @EndlessLight

At the 4 week point after the AR (If LA stick
to timescales) then I’ll know if they wish to amend sections and / or provisions and it’s at this point if (when ) they say no, I appeal.

I won’t have my evidence before the AR - does that matter? I may have the EP by mid October though. When will I have to submit my independent evidence to the LA to prove my son really requires a change of provision?

I do have existing evidence from LA social worker showing home social struggles, I do have evidence of no SALT since Jan 24, I have evidence showing difficult with transitions and limited respite due to this, but those independent reports won’t be ready (i think)till December as SALT / ISW have all confirmed assessmentsl reports wont completed till November at earliest.
Physio and OT all getting back to me next week - I expect they will be similar timescales.

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EndlessLight · 01/09/2024 19:22

Section F is the special educational provision. Section I is the placement and type of placement.

Ignoring phase transfers for a minute because the following applies to all cases. Following the AR, a report will be written and circulated within 2 weeks. You will be sent a copy of this and it should include things like amendments required. LAs use (or ignore!) this and any other evidence to make decisions. The LA then decides whether to maintain the EHCP as it is, propose to amend the EHCP or cease to maintain. The LA must inform you of this decision within 4 weeks of the AR meeting. If the LA proposes to amend, at the same time as informing you, they must issue the amendment notice. This includes the amendments proposed. They may propose to amend one section or multiple sections. You will then be able to make representations and state your preferred placement. The LA must then finalise within a further 8 weeks. When the LA finalises, they may amend just one section or multiple sections. They may name a different placement or they may not.

Looking at Y11 to post 16 phase transfers specifically, the above still applies, but on top of that, the LA must amend the EHCP to name the post 16 placement by the 31st March of Y11. That isn’t the same thing as saying they must make specific amendments to other sections such as B&F. The LA may not amend B&F. They may ignore your evidence. When you get the finalised EHCP, if you disagree with the amendments, you can appeal.

If the AR meeting is in October, the LA must still follow the normal AR timescales, so if they are going to amend, at the latest you must have a finalised EHCP within 12 weeks of the meeting which would be the end of Dec/some time in Jan depending on when on October the AR meeting is. Sometimes LAs would name the post 16 placement then alongside the placement for the remaining part of Y11, but sometimes LAs finalise following the AR and then go through the amendment process again in order to finalise the phase transfer EHCP by 31st March. And sometimes they decide they don’t think the law doesn’t apply to them and don’t stick to the AR timescales.

In case the LA tells you otherwise, you don’t have to state more than one post 16 placement nor complete a separate form.

Original poster
Lesley25 · 01/09/2024 18:39

Sorry my Grammer was terrible above , I rushed that as I was reading the legal forums.

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Original poster
Lesley25 · 01/09/2024 18:39

Can I just clarify one thing.

As it’s a phase transfer year, the SENDO LA MUST amend the EHCP so whilst iam saying the current provision isn’t suitable , all the professional report findings (OT/ SALT ISW/PHYSIO /EP) can also be included in the EHCP- specifically section F which the SENDO HAS (?) to amend the EHCP to include.

The LA never have sent a representative (SENDO) to a single AR
How do they say no to a change of provision though? do they say they “won’t amend “ the EHCP ( but I thought they had to with it being a phase transfer year
regardless if I ask for a change of provision ) or do they specifically say no to change of provision , but they’ll amend the EHCP to include my professional report findings in the relevant sections.

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Original poster
Lesley25 · 01/09/2024 17:24

In that case I will just commission the sendist SALT report . Thanks again @EndlessLight

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EndlessLight · 01/09/2024 17:12

Be aware the LA/school doesn’t have to provide what isn’t in the EHCP. You may have a report in September, but the content of the report won’t be in the EHCP until at least after the AR and maybe not until after an appeal and it doesn’t have to be provided until it is in F.

Also be aware some tests can’t be repeated that close together.

Original poster
Lesley25 · 01/09/2024 17:03

Thank you @EndlessLight i will contact those.

What I have done for SALT is commission a local Salt therapist who we have previously worked with, who can create specific section F speech targets with frequency , quantifiable and specific. I was thinking these can go into the Ehcp and / or be worked on now with my ds , it’s our huge area of need and we have the school can start on, it’s a long road as you say to tribunal.
i have then commmisoned a sendist SALT who is available November for a Tribunal based report , I know I’m paying twice (although the first SALT is hundreds not thousands like the second ), but the first SALT can do this in September.

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EndlessLight · 01/09/2024 16:51

I couldn’t appeal SALT even if I wanted to, it’s not specified or quantified enough in section F and so much of it is wholly.
lesson learnt.

I know this is what you mean, but for when you speak to others/the LA, you can’t enforce the provision via JR. When you have the right of appeal following the AR, you will be able to appeal.

If the cost is an issue and you aren’t eligible for legal aid, Parents in Need can sometimes help.

Depending on your evidence and the LA’s case, you may decide you don’t need professionals to attend a hearing as witnesses. Or you may decide you only need one. You are unlikely to need them to all attend. Parents don’t have professionals attend as witnesses in most of the cases I support. I have done several appeals for my own DSs without paying for a professional to attend. Sometimes it isn’t necessary. If you think you will want them to attend, check they will. Not all do.

For social workers try: Gary Crisp, Cathie Long, Mary Cartlidge, Rachel Gavin, Lynsey Docherty and Kirsteen Wilshere. Not as many physios have SENDIST experience as EP/SALT/OT/ISW, but there are some. Not as many travel like other some professionals either. And it depends on DS’s needs too. My two go to physios aren’t taking on new clients, but others you could try are Julie Dyer, Miriam Pollitt and Bumble Bee Physios.

Original poster
Lesley25 · 01/09/2024 15:53

No that’s really informative @EndlessLight

I am really struggling for a physio Sendist professional. I haven’t even looked for a social worker one yet but now you’re said that , I’ll concentrate on that. I have EP / SALT booked in, an OT calling me back and I’ll get on with the others.

i am blown away by how much they cost, but its a cost that’s worth it. They’ve also quoted for their fees if they have to attend tribunal, so you think I should make sure that the rest of the professionals I ask can also make tribunal?

Going back through Ds EHCP and I’m cross with myself, I couldn’t appeal SALT even if I wanted to, it’s not specified or quantified enough in section F and so much of it is wholly.
lesson learnt.

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EndlessLight · 31/08/2024 15:46

If you need to prioritise money, for a residential appeal, I would prioritise an independent social worker assessment over a physio assessment. Make sure you get professionals with SENDIST experience. And the OT wants to be someone who can look at the sensory integration side of OT too. Sorry if that is teaching you to suck eggs.

Original poster
Lesley25 · 31/08/2024 14:26

Right that’s made my mind up, thank you. We state residential provision now, at the earliest it will be 17 years old anyway. And as you said, I’ll have to appeal’s the sections of ds EHCP with all the report findings I’ve commissioned anyway .
Thanks again. I got a slot for EP , SALT and OT ringing me back.
I’ll crack on with finding the others
-social worker and Physio.
belt and braces.

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EndlessLight · 31/08/2024 14:00

This year will be a phase transfer year regardless of whether you say you believe the current setting can’t meet DS’s needs or not. All Y11 to post 16 EHCPs are phase transfers and all must be finalised by 31st March 2025.

Post 19 isn’t automatically a phase transfer year. Although any young person moving from one post 16 placement to another post 16 placement must have their EHCP finalised at least 5 months before the move. See this IPSEA page and the links to the legislation.

Given you will probably have to appeal, which probably means DS wouldn’t start before Sept 2025 at the earliest, DS will be post 16 by the time he begins residential. Some residential placements take 16-25 year olds. Unless the setting you will be pursuing for post 16 is a placement that does not take 19+ students, I wouldn’t let it stop you. Even then, I think 2 years is a very long time to wait in a setting that isn't meeting DS's needs and, personally, I would be pursuing a residential placement now if you think it is necessary.

You will probably have to appeal anyway to get B&F right anyway (and an extended appeal looking at D&H).

All EHCPs are reviewed at the AR, so no placement is guaranteed to continue. That applies whether you pursue residential now or later.

Original poster
Lesley25 · 31/08/2024 13:43

@EndlessLight
i spoke with the solicitor yesterday and she
mentioned that if I choose to say “no” to current provision at AR in October 24 , by the time it gets to tribunal (a year give or take so sept 2025 possibly, maybe even sept 26 with the way the school calender works) , DS will
be almost 18 (turns 18 sept 26), and if that was the case , I would STILL have to apply for a residential college provision from 19 years old which could potentially mean a move again after a year if I didn’t get the school we wanted (which has a further education college on site ) for one reason being that they may not take ds so I shouldn’t rely on one provision , as very few have schools have further education colleges on site so a move after a year maybe necessary. This would be a disaster for
my Ds. Transitions are his Achilles heel.

I’ve already contacted the school of my choice to start the assesment process for DS but it’s still holidays, so I don’t expect to hear back and even if I do, the assesment won’t be in by the annual review I expect.

The solicitor suggested “amend” the EHCP to put all these things in place in ds EHCP (assessments for colleges , enhanced SALT, Physio, EP report findings , social worker etc )

all the while making it known to everyone that a residential college in sept 2026 is the goal, when ds is 18 , because that’s how long it will probably take and prevent us from going through this process again at 18.
@EndlessLight your voice rang in my ears about not going through the amend process.
Given what the solicitor said above -
do you still think that would still be the wrong choice?

I know I’d find the next 2 years difficult but I couldn’t bare for my son to transition to a residential school and then the fight resume again for a residential college , the transition for him and he stress of it twice would be a nightmare.

Does anyone have an opinion on
one or the other?

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Original poster
Lesley25 · 29/08/2024 19:26

Thank you @EndlessLight

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EndlessLight · 29/08/2024 18:03

You could request an EP assessment. If you are going to do that, you should do it now. However, the LA may say no and force you to request a reassessment of needs which they could also refuse but would have the right of appeal. A reassessment of needs wouldn’t be the right route for you. It may not change anything and still leave you needing to appeal but having wasted months.

An LA EP report is also unlikely to be sufficient for an appeal for a residential SS.

In your situation, an EP would be better than a CP. If you do go ahead with the CP, make sure they have SENDIST experience. The majority of CPs do not.

You could try: Jemma Levy, Ruth Birnbaum, Vivienne Clifford, Mike Hymans, Patsy Kershaw, Marina Gouzouli-Allen, Siobhan Aubin, Paul Kelly, Stephanie Warman, Jonathan Middleton, Leanne Short, John Pugh.

There is a wait for all, but they are good and you will have a wait for SENDIST anyway.

Normal physio and OT referrals are unlikely to lead to sufficiently detailed, specified and quantified reports. OT in particular can help for a residential SS appeal. Not every provision could deliver the level and type of OT input (direct and indirect) and environment many requiring a residential placement need.

Obviously, I haven’t seen the evidence from your social worker, but unless the evidence from your LA is unusually good, an independent social worker report will be superior.

Original poster
Lesley25 · 29/08/2024 17:49

@EndlessLight I’m struggling to get an EP in my area.

Do you think I have any chance of asking the LA for an EP at the annual review where I say no to the current provision or do you think they won’t be neutral? on the other hand, I can get a clinical
psychologist relatively quickly (alarm bells did ring I have to admit ) but you pay a premium for it -roughly £3,000. Would this be discounted at tribunal?

I know an EP would need to say why education would need to continue in a residential provision and justify it.

I’ve looked at the social worker reports, they are fair and say what the truth is about how much of a struggle my ds finds life in general and show that they ar continuing to increases respite etc . I can’t see a gap in these that would go against me at tribunal so I have discounted a social worker report privately.

i have a referral in the system for a physio / OTbut any provision could deliver this resource - it wouldn’t be that residential could only deliver it , so I’m not sure how much use that would be.

SALT I have commissioned.

The medical facilities in a residential can be supported by evidence I have that ds cannot access doctors /dentists without great difficulty and next time I get in front of the paediatrician I’ll ask for his letter / error to be more specific.

Have I missed anything ?

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Original poster
Lesley25 · 27/08/2024 17:14

Thank you for all your help @EndlessLight always invaluable x

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EndlessLight · 27/08/2024 16:35

Some people find the social worker’s evidence helpful. Others find it a hinderance and seek other evidence to counter the LA’s SW.

You can let them know now, but you don’t have to. If you think they will be helpful, it could be a good idea so they can help you with evidence. But if you think they will be obstructive and will fit their evidence to suit the LA’s narrative, it could be better to wait until closer to the AR. Either way, more likely than not, you will need to appeal.

Original poster
Lesley25 · 27/08/2024 16:23

Thank you.
The current provision is not independent it’s LA. So that makes me feel better that they cannot off roll.

I’ve made enquiries for the specialist reports , I’ll get them done as soon as the specialists can give me a date.

Do you think I let social worker , Learning Development team leader (LDT) and respite know that I’m going to say current provision cannot meet need?

I was hoping the respite provision team and managers and LDT would also provide evidence - I guess expecting the LA social worker to specifically provide evidence wouldn’t happen, but then all the reports to date detail everything and the hardships we endure at home life also so I’m going to use all those child in need assessments.

But the LDT and respite would cover a key reason I’m asking for residential now -
in that transitions takes years for my complex son , and I’d like that to be stated .

Can I let them know now or wait?

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EndlessLight · 27/08/2024 15:34

It isn’t essential you have the reports by the AR. You will probably have to appeal anyway regardless of how much evidence you have, anyway. And unless you are extremely lucky with a cancellation, you won’t have the reports by then.

What type of residential placement is your preferred placement? You don’t need to know exactly which placement you want at the AR meeting. At the meeting, you can make it known the current placement is no longer appropriate, your preference is a residential placement and you will be pursuing that. Then, if the LA propose to amend, you will get the opportunity to state your preferred placement. If push comes to shove and you have to appeal but don’t know your preferred placement by then you can even state, e.g. specialist residential school and give further details as soon as you know them.

Is the current school wholly independent? If not, and the LA continues to name them on the EHCP, the school must admit. They cannot off-roll.

Not enforcing the provision won’t go against you.

Original poster
Lesley25 · 27/08/2024 15:03

Thank you. Would it go against me in any way if I don’t enforce the SALT provision and instead use that as part of my evidence to say the current educational provision is failing my son?

Right, I’ll start googling for the professionals you’ve listed to carry out the necessary assesments. When I sit down at AR time with everyone, do I need to have all my evidence and assesment reports in for that October meeting?

I can’t name a residential placement till the preferred placement has carried out their assesment (I’ve emailed), - do I have to have that in by the AR? Can I say the current educational provision is failing and tick the box “no” for the upcoming year? If the preferred placement say “they cannot meet need “ would this put me in a position whereby the current educational provision off rolls him and he would left without an educational placement because I said no? That would be a nightmare.

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