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SEN

Here you'll find advice from parents and teachers on special needs education.

Original poster

ADHD in secondary Grammar school

36 replies

Whereisthesunny · 06/03/2024 10:27

Ds is in yr7 and keeps getting in trouble in the afternoon for shouting out as struggles with focus by then. Any suggestions i could ask school to try. He is not medicated. He is allowed breaks but it still happens.
Would also be interested in those who chose grammar for their ADHD child and moved them later on. Son hates it and wants to move school and i can’t see if this would be better in local secondary as surely ADHD would be still affect him the same way.

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Original poster
Whereisthesunny · 02/05/2024 10:14

Thank you yes that’s seem to be case here. Now that ds has build himself quite a reputation and not in a positive way, they finally seem to take things a bit more seriously and rather than just giving out punishment they finally started to put help in place and reduced afternoon lesson for now until we sort medication out for him.
Ds is still adamant his main aim is to end up in a local school but accepts that for now we have to make things work here as i feel there is no chance of working things at comp unless we get his adhd somewhat under control

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crazycrofter · 23/04/2024 14:39

OhCrumbsWhereNow · 14/04/2024 00:29

The problem you might find if you move him is that you get far less support than you do now - especially if he is bright and achieving, as the grammar will probably have far fewer SEN kids and almost certainly far fewer with complex needs.

There is so much pressure on resources right now that in our experience if child is not suffering hugely from mental health issues or failing everything then you are pretty much on your own. Disruption in class is likely to just result in an awful lot of time in detentions.

Is there a reason you haven't tried medication? It's been completely life-changing for us (high-achieving 15 year old with ADHD and severe dyslexia).

I would reiterate this. Our ds was at a grammar for years 7-11 and is now at a comp sixth form. He had much better support at the grammar, even though they weren't very experienced with ADHD, because he was probably one of the 'worst' of their SEN students. Whereas at the comp there are lots with more serious issues and he doesn't get a look in.

Headfirstintothewild · 16/04/2024 19:09

Further assessments will help whether DS stays in this school, attends another school or has other provision.

Original poster
Whereisthesunny · 16/04/2024 18:33

I think the tricky bit is also they will ask him every now and then if he is happy and if he accepts that he is difficult and he will say it’s because he doesn’t want to be there which there is not a lot the school can do about.

So i feel in between two minds if i should start asking for him to be assessed when he might not stay here. difficult to know what’s best

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Headfirstintothewild · 16/04/2024 18:18

Sounds like DS needs reassessing. The environment and demands of secondary are different to primary. You should request an EHCNA.

Have you looked at PDA strategies?

Original poster
Whereisthesunny · 16/04/2024 17:49

they gave him extra work when they thought he was messing as wasn’t challenged then the next time he messed around he told me the work they gave him was way too hard so he was bothered by that.
He has always had issue with authority especially when when the teacher is a young female. i suspect he also has ODD but he absolutely struggled with being diagnosed with adhd and took him a while to accept (as he didn’t feel he belonged to the group of ‘special kids’ he told us this)
so we decided not to pursue any additional asd diagnoses which the paediatrician had suggested.

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Original poster
Whereisthesunny · 16/04/2024 17:40

Yep he had one in yr6 and the report was all about how he thrives in lessons and that he needed minimal sen support.
There was no struggle like this back then. He was only diagnosed in yr5 due to having incidents at school which were based on his impulsiveness at break times and unstructured time but in terms of sitting during lessons and concentration there was no issue or if there was school managed to handle him. Not sure if things changed or if the level of concentration has increased due to it being grammar and he finds things hard or if puberty hormones are making his adhd worse or if school dealt with it better in primary. i’m not sure i will ever know the answer to all these. I have nothing to compare to in terms of how good school is dealing with sen as don’t know anyone else apart from a lady a while back had told me about her son who lasted till year 9 in this grammar who was diagnosed aspergers but school was not interested in catering for him so they moved to a comp but apparently things hadn’t improved much in terms of sen support.

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Headfirstintothewild · 16/04/2024 13:50

Have you considered requesting an EHCNA? Has DS ever had ed psych and OT assessments?

Original poster
Whereisthesunny · 16/04/2024 11:42

@Headfirstintothewild exactly and to be honest i have raised this once with head of year more like gently asked the question about how experienced they are with adhd and he gave an expected answer that they have a few adhd students and so have experience.
I can’t really challenge it to be honest as i don’t have any better suggestions as to what else to try and most that have been suggested here have already been implemented so I feel a bit lost.
The truth is i don’t know what’s acceptable in a grammar setting.
I know in the local comp will just give out tons of detentions and behaviour points so it’s not rare that students will end up with around 100 by the end of the year and these will be children with adhd as i know some.

Here at the grammar they don’t do any behaviour points only detentions for serious stuff and when i had the call from the head of year to ask to come in for a meeting as they are still finding his adhd difficult to manage i feel we are going down the route of being forced to move school or try medication but i feel they don’t want to risk him causing issues to the overall results of the school which i can appreciate but just doesn’t leave me much choice.
Especially when ds so wanting to leave the school i feel its only going one way even tho he could great here if he improved the behaviour.

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Headfirstintothewild · 15/04/2024 21:12

With those stats, compared to secondary state mainstreams in England, they have a low number of EHCPs but ever so slightly above average on SEN Support. But, you come back to the point of not knowing the type of SEN and e.g. ASD is probably more common than ADHD.

Original poster
Whereisthesunny · 15/04/2024 20:59

Not sure what the impact is but overall similar numbers with local comp being much bigger
1800 students 12% with Sen as opposed to 1300 students with 13% Sen in the grammar

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Phineyj · 15/04/2024 20:43

For comparison, my outstanding comp (similar size) has 5% EHCP and nearly 18% SEN support. That's why I'll be sending my DD (ADHD, ASD) there and not to one of the grammars and independents that most of her friends are going to.

It was a tough decision but I want her to feel like she fits in and for staff to see her difficulties as everyday and frequently encountered.

Original poster
Whereisthesunny · 15/04/2024 19:42

@OhCrumbsWhereNow thank you. it’s quite a difficult situation as ds is adamant he wants to leave and so i think school would be much happier if we just did that and i can’t blame them for it.

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Original poster
Whereisthesunny · 15/04/2024 19:30

@Headfirstintothewild thank you found it. 1300 students 0.5% with ehcp and 13% Sen support

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OhCrumbsWhereNow · 15/04/2024 19:12

Whereisthesunny · 15/04/2024 18:35

@Headfirstintothewild thanks for the link. funny enough the send number on roll is blank and so is the type of sen provision.

when i had parents evening i remember talking to one of his teachers who would tell me he gets very fidgety by the end of the day so i asked her if he can just have a walk/ break and she point blank said no for safety reasons he can’t just wonder around.
2 min later i was talking to senco and i asked why he can’t just have a walk/movement break which they replied of course he can and they had already spoken to teachers so they know about it. i said the teacher had just told me it’s a big no and they looked surprised but i realised the communication is not all there so perhaps i need to push that more next time.

I would email his teachers individually and spell it out if you can.

I assumed all DD's teachers were fully aware - she has a laptop for everything, is not shy about her SEN and the SENCo had assured me (in writing) that all teachers were fully aware and trained and had a SEN plan. I was a bit sceptical given that I knew none of the things in the plan were actually happening in practice.

When the school report came out and subject after subject said that DD would do so much better if only she could learn to properly focus and pay attention, alarm bells went off... along with another email to the SENCo. Parent's evening the following week had one teacher saying 'I'm so sorry about the report, I had no idea she was ADHD till yesterday, so that rather explains the lack of focus doesn't it...'

So now I don't trust any of them and am just emailing each teacher with a list of issues to be aware of and what strategies are likely to get the best results.

Headfirstintothewild · 15/04/2024 18:57

Has the school become an academy relatively recently? The latest figures are from 22/23, so if the school has opened (including when they have become an academy) it will be blank and you will need to look at the ‘old’ school profile.

Otherwise the statistics should be there under ‘absence and pupil population’. Not the number, but the % with SEN support and the % with EHCPs.

When you click ‘get information about schools’ under ‘show more school details’, unless the school has an ARP/unit or is a special school the ‘type of SEN’ being blank is correct (unless, as some have, the school has misunderstood how to complete their data set). And unless the school has an ARP or SEN unit the “Resourced provision number on roll” and “Special Educational Needs (SEN) unit number on roll” should be blank (again, unless the school have not understood how to report their data).

Original poster
Whereisthesunny · 15/04/2024 18:35

@Headfirstintothewild thanks for the link. funny enough the send number on roll is blank and so is the type of sen provision.

when i had parents evening i remember talking to one of his teachers who would tell me he gets very fidgety by the end of the day so i asked her if he can just have a walk/ break and she point blank said no for safety reasons he can’t just wonder around.
2 min later i was talking to senco and i asked why he can’t just have a walk/movement break which they replied of course he can and they had already spoken to teachers so they know about it. i said the teacher had just told me it’s a big no and they looked surprised but i realised the communication is not all there so perhaps i need to push that more next time.

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Headfirstintothewild · 15/04/2024 18:22

The SENCO should be ensuring teachers are aware of DS’s needs and the support he requires. Can you request the email addresses of DS’s teachers. If they won’t provide them, can you ask them to forward an email you send to the HOY outlining DS’s needs. If they won’t do that, I would give each teacher a written sheet at the next parents’ evening.

Original poster
Whereisthesunny · 15/04/2024 18:14

@OhCrumbsWhereNow thanks for this. They seem to be very willing to try out techniques and are open for me to suggest things but not really sure what else to suggest. They gave him a toilet pass and is allowed to have a break/walk with it. However i started to think that while agreeing all these with head of year, it doesn’t seem to translate into the actual classroom with teachers. Perhaps they are not used to it and so he is still constantly getting into trouble with teachers but they just get the head of year to deal with him/me so a lot of the actual details or info is lost by the time head of year speaks to me.
Its hard not to be able to speak to teachers like we did in primary as it makes things so much transparent.

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OhCrumbsWhereNow · 15/04/2024 17:53

Having been at a grammar myself, and having looked at a very wide range of schools for DD, I suspect ADHD is not that common at grammar.

Around 70% of kids with ADHD will also have dyslexia, and I know when we were looking it was very clear that the vast majority of selective schools were only really set up to deal with high-functioning ASD and the mildest of dyslexia. Even though DD's ADHD is very much a focus issue and not a behavioural issue at school (she saves the 'H' part for home) we felt it wouldn't be fair to put her in a selective school.

I have friends with ADHD kids in selective indies and grammars and none of them have found that they are in any way set up for the realities or even basic understanding of the issues around organisation or executive function or shouting out/fidgeting.

Headfirstintothewild · 15/04/2024 17:52

You can search for the most recent statistics here. You will be able to see the percentage of pupils on SEN support at the school and the percentage with EHCPs and how that compares to England. But they don’t tell you the type of SEN, which I think plays a significant part in if a school meets a pupil’s needs.

Original poster
Whereisthesunny · 15/04/2024 17:24

Can’t see actual numbers but report mentions SEND students do exceptionally well and are happy. Not sure if that’s much to go on

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Phineyj · 15/04/2024 16:42

What does their latest Ofsted report say is the % of SEN students on roll and what does it say about how they do with them?

What contact did you have with the SENCO, if any, before he started?

Original poster
Whereisthesunny · 15/04/2024 16:23

yes he is very academic (possible ASD) hence his primary suggested grammar will challenge him. His older sibling attends local comp and all his mates are there too so he is feeling like he is missing having to travel.
I fear that academically he won’t be challenged plus he will have lots of partners in crime to mess around.
I don’t have experience with this grammar but i don’t feel they know what they are doing with his adhd. I had to give them advice as to how to handle a melt down he had a few month back.
Actually my idea was that grammar would have a lot more sen students but more of asd due to academics but maybe that’s wrong.
i certainly think adhd is not a common sen for grammar

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Phineyj · 14/04/2024 07:27

It's hard to say - depends on the specific school - but the grammar I worked in had little idea how to support SEN kids precisely because there were hardly any. There was a part time SENCO with two other roles, no TAs, no counselling, no resource space or SEN space, no social skills support, no nurture type support. It was sink.or swim. They were OK with dyslexia but that was about it.