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SEN

Here you'll find advice from parents and teachers on special needs education.

Original poster

Reduced School hours

31 replies

MummyPop00 · 25/05/2023 09:56

DS 13 is in year 8 at High School with ASD in Designated Provision attached to mainstream, but the wheels have been coming off over the last year.

In December there was a safety incident, DS had a meltdown & threatened to jump off the first floor staircase so he was excluded temporarily & then started again in Jan doing two hour days, then gradually readmitted to full time again over a three month period. Been doing full time over the last six weeks or so but due to further behavioural issues, School have cut his hours again to two per day, as of yesterday, before the upcoming half term.

School are now contacting the LA regarding where we go from here.

We requested an emergency review of the EHC plan in January, the LA have only just implemented the additional funding now for a 1:1 TA, School have been doing this out of their own funding since Jan.

Increasingly looks like we are going to have to jump ship to a ASD specific school 8 miles away, we named this on the emergency EHCP review but the LA went with the increased support at his existing school.

We are dreading the possibility of another emergency EHCP review, then another three or four months reduced school hours whilst the LA, with their EHCP backlog, take months to deal with it…

Home schooling is not really an option, School is the only respite we get as we have no extended family to call on & DD 12 also has ‘issues’, just not formally recognised (as yet).

What are our rights here regarding the reduced hours? Can school keep doing this for safeguarding reasons?

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Original poster
MummyPop00 · 19/09/2023 15:45

Ok, another update

emailed the rep at the LA this morning & tbf she telephoned me back within the hour.

Basically reiterated that the MS school cannot meet need as they cannot guarantee ds safety (we knew this by this stage, but didn’t appreciate school going radio silent & not answering our emails even in respect of a temporary return until another placement was sorted, so a complaint to the governors has been sent in respect of their poor communication as we still have a sibling in the school)

So, anyway, we have agreed to give the SEMH school a go for the remainder of this first half term. Son has also agreed -very reluctantly- & well, his options are limited at this stage.

If it doesn’t work out, we have been told to call another emergency EHCP review & then the likes of EOTAS may be considered.

All seems fair enough, if a laborious, stressful pain in the ar$e! sigh

OP posts:
ThomasWasTortured · 18/09/2023 22:13

20 weeks is the timescale following an EHCNA request. It isn’t the timescales following ARs.

Original poster
MummyPop00 · 18/09/2023 21:20

Hi

I thought it was 20 weeks before EHCP finalisation?

The LA, courtesy of its rep, told us verbally it wouldn’t be maintaining the current plan, the fact they have recommended an SEMH School seems to suggest they are as good as their word, even in the absence of an EHCP draft.

I’m all for sticking the boots in on LA’s as & when. In this case, I’m holding fire for now.

Yes, Son has been out of education now for 23 days, so if we aren’t going to this SEMH School & the MS don’t want him/can’t cope with him then provision will have to be made somewhere sooner rather than later.

He has been negative about both SEN schools primarily because he ‘wants to be normal & go to a normal school’ & ‘doesn’t want to go to a small school because it will be boring’ (the current MS is big, 1500+ pupils). Both SEN schools have around 70 pupils each. His Primary provision was also an ASD unit within mainstream so he has never been to a ‘small’ school…

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ThomasWasTortured · 18/09/2023 19:58

The LA should have informed you whether they were going to amend or not within 4 weeks and if they were going to amend issue a draft. Then, if they were amending they should have finalised within a further 8 weeks, so max 12 weeks overall.

Is it the ASD and SEMH schools themselves DS doesn’t like, the thought of any school or the thought of change?

For EOTAS you will need to show it is inappropriate for the provision to be made in a school. EOTAS packages are all bespoke, so what it could include will depend on what DS requires.

Original poster
MummyPop00 · 18/09/2023 19:10

The AR hasn’t been formally completed, think the LA wanted us to accept the place at the SEMH School before going to print (been 12 weeks or so since the AR meeting so far)

As already said, we would accept the place at the local SEMH School but son wasn’t keen to put it mildly.

Tbf though, he was also negative about the ASD School that we were impressed by & named, so not sure that’s really worth fighting hard for.

We won’t be home schooling so looks like EOTAS might be looming as an alternative option then. No experience or real knowledge of how it works tbh, but looks like I might have to start suggesting it.

We’ve got an Early Help Worker who even though SEN education isn’t her area of expertise has done a good job getting involved, even emailing the existing MS School asking for answers where we haven’t had them. She arranged a productive Team Around The Family meeting last month & a rep from the LA’s EHCP team was there. Looks like we might need another one of those meetings :/

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ThomasWasTortured · 18/09/2023 18:06

You could appeal (has the LA completed the AR process, do you have the right of appeal following the AR?) for the refusal to name the ASD school you mentioned in your OP. If it is wholly independent you will need an offer of a place, but if it isn’t you don’t.

If it is inappropriate for provision to take place in a school I second EOTAS, you wouldn’t have to EHE.

In the meantime the LA should be providing alternative arrangements to ensure DS receives a suitable, full-time education and anything detailed, specified and quantified in F.

SusiePevensie · 18/09/2023 17:45

It could leave EOTAS?

Original poster
MummyPop00 · 18/09/2023 16:32

Just another update. Son still out of school, LA have pushed forward a local SEMH School which we have had a look round today, School seemed ‘ok’ without being amazing, but yes we would probably send him there, but Son was very negative about it staying he wants to go back to his MS School.

He & this situation are both driving us nuts tbh.

So, if the existing MS School with ASD unit are insinuating strongly they cannot meet need, but son refuses to go into specialist provision what does this leave as options if we don’t want to home school?

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Foxesandsquirrels · 07/08/2023 18:41

@MummyPop00 Any updates? Hope the LA has something in place for you for Sept.

Original poster
MummyPop00 · 21/07/2023 00:10

@ThomasWasTortured

Many thanks for that, very grateful for the guidance!

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ThomasWasTortured · 20/07/2023 19:05

Personally, I would focus on the existing review. Email the Director of Children’s Services reminding them of the timescales. If that doesn’t work email again threatening judicial review. Then, if that fails you need a pre-action letter. If you do want an early review it is the LA who you need to contact, not the school.

It is unlikely DS will start a new school at the beginning of September now.

If in September DS can’t attend the existing school email the Director of Children’s Services informing them of the situation and requesting provision under s.19 of the Education Act 1996. If that doesn’t work email again threatening JR. Then if that fails you need a pre-action letter.

Original poster
MummyPop00 · 20/07/2023 08:20

Oops, DS will have been out of school for 13 days by finish of term tomorrow not 15 days!

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Original poster
MummyPop00 · 20/07/2023 08:18

Just another update…

DS been out of school for 12 days now, school break up tomorrow.

Been in touch with GP/CAHMS, CAHMS said they are writing to School suggesting another review of his EHCP even though we haven’t had the proposals from the latest annual EHCP review yet.

That EHCP review was held on 12 June. Looking at the IPSEA website the LA should have been in touch with draft proposals going forwards by now?

Wrote a s.22 IPSEA template letter to the Director of Children’s Services on the 13th July regarding DS being unable to attend school & to be fair, this was acknowledged within a couple of hours & I was told this is being passed to a senior officer for SEND & Education. However, not heard anything back yet.

What are my next moves here?

School break up tomorrow, so just before the 15 day threshold for alternative education being provided as DS will have only been out of school for 15 days…

Unless I hear imminently I’m guessing there is little chance DS starts a new school at the beginning of September at this stage?

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Original poster
MummyPop00 · 04/07/2023 21:29

Yes absolutely but in fairness we have had no reason to question provision thus far but after a promising- nay much better than expected- start at MS High School the wheels have now come off spectacularly. Rest assured, we will be wanting some substantial meat on the bones of the revised EHCP before we are prepared to accept it.

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Gbwjvjdnfnfirnfc · 04/07/2023 20:38

Yes, also while you may be able to obtain a medical letter and use it as grounds for your child not attending, that doesn't necessarily demonstrate that his special educational needs are not being met. Best of luck with it all

ThomasWasTortured · 04/07/2023 20:07

Many people have appeal to get anything but MS.

The existing EHCP is bare bones in terms of its descriptions

This is probably, at least in part, why the LA haven’t agreed to another placement yet. If the EHCP is poor and doesn’t accurately reflect needs and the SEP required it makes it far harder to get a specialist setting named.

Original poster
MummyPop00 · 04/07/2023 19:44

The school did admit they were struggling to meet needs at the AR. The SENCO is wondering why the LA haven’t offered us an alternative placement for September yet.

The existing EHCP is bare bones in terms of its descriptions & is in the process of being rewritten. We decided rightly or wrongly not to appeal the previous emergency review due to times waiting for appeals to be heard.

Son has decided he isn’t going in tomorrow so has likely attended for the last time & we aren’t home educating so something has to give.

Will be contacting any / all of GP, local Child Development Centre & CAHMS with a view to getting a letter in the interim explaining his EBSA.

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ThomasWasTortured · 04/07/2023 19:02

Did you not appeal section I (and B&F) from the last review?

The difference is by withdrawing/deregistering and home educating OP would be responsible for education, but for provision under s.19 of the Education Act 1996 the LA retain responsibility.

Gbwjvjdnfnfirnfc · 04/07/2023 18:58

MummyPop00 · 04/07/2023 18:43

Hi again, thanks for the replies.

The annual review in June resulted in the general acceptance by everyone attending that the current situation isn’t working very well so it’s on its way to panel however long that takes at the moment. EHCP team worker from the LA in attendance at the Annual Review tried suggesting the only other high school in town with a ASD DP to us but of course we gave that short shrift as it would be swapping like with like & so we are pushing hard as we can now for specialist provision. The fervent hope is we can get ds sorted by September.

We have absolutely no intention of home educating, we need the respite.

Ok but I think that exclusion is likely to result in DC being at home more in a similar fashion rather than immediate access to alternative provision, let alone specialist provision. At the AR , did the school express a view on whether it is the appropriate type of provision for DC?

Original poster
MummyPop00 · 04/07/2023 18:43

Hi again, thanks for the replies.

The annual review in June resulted in the general acceptance by everyone attending that the current situation isn’t working very well so it’s on its way to panel however long that takes at the moment. EHCP team worker from the LA in attendance at the Annual Review tried suggesting the only other high school in town with a ASD DP to us but of course we gave that short shrift as it would be swapping like with like & so we are pushing hard as we can now for specialist provision. The fervent hope is we can get ds sorted by September.

We have absolutely no intention of home educating, we need the respite.

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Gbwjvjdnfnfirnfc · 04/07/2023 17:23

Yes, I was not suggesting deregistering and you must be absolutely clear in writing that you are not electing to home educate. It must be because the current placement is not appropriate and not meeting needs etc

ThomasWasTortured · 04/07/2023 17:21

Did you appeal section I?

Schools are often reluctant to PEX for a multitude of reasons. But, if DS can’t attend school because of his MH/SEN, and it sounds like he is on the verge of EBSA, the LA must provide alternative education under s.19 of the Education Act 1996. This should begin once it becomes clear DS will miss 15 days.

Whatever you do, don’t deregister! Parents often find it easier (although not easy) to get support when on a school’s roll. Crudely, you are someone’s problem and if DS can’t attend the LA must provide provision. Whereas, if you EHE it is easier for professionals to sweep DC’s needs under the carpet and the LA will say you are making suitable alternative arrangements thereby relieving them of their duties.

Gbwjvjdnfnfirnfc · 04/07/2023 17:15

Hi, what happened at the annual review? That remains your best route to fixing this. Has the school said that it can not meet needs? You could consider withdrawing him and requesting EOTAS as an interim measure given needs are not being met, for the period until your appeal (to the amended final EHCP) is heard at SENDIST. You may be best doing this once you have the amended final EHCP issued in order that the LA are aware that it will need to explain its behaviour at the hearing and also think twice about doing things like amending section I in advance of said hearing.

Original poster
MummyPop00 · 04/07/2023 16:20

Update: situation deteriorating further, DS been formally excluded this afternoon for kicking a TA (I made sure they emailed me this time before collecting)

He is currently back attending full time after I made it clear: no more informal exclusions.

Got a meeting with the school Senco tomorrow on ‘how to keep ds safe’ which ds is supposed to be attending but won’t be doing.

At this point, we just want School to permanently exclude so we can get him into more specialist provision via whatever means possible sooner rather than later. They seem reluctant to do so, not sure why?

DS has had a meltdown on being picked up & is refusing to go to School tomorrow & I think he has reached the end of his rope with the place.

He hates being shadowed everywhere by a TA. He has lunch separately sat with a TA in designated provision & also has break times separately in the same DP room & according to him the TA’s won’t let him even talk to other pupils for his own safety which we point out is in part due to his own behaviour.

A nightmare really & he clearly needs moving asap though we are literally clinging on by our fingernails trying to get school to fully exclude to grease the wheels going forward. Is this the right strategy? Any advice?

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ThomasWasTortured · 25/05/2023 14:05

Yes, they are separate processes. ARs must be held at least every 12 months even if an appeal has already been submitted. With the long waits for hearings at the moment it isn’t uncommon to have an AR during the appeals process.