Please help me with DD2's explosive outbursts, I don't know what to do!

No I wouldn’t punish for issues like that in school. School will deal with it in the moment. I try not to “punish” outbursts anyway. Unless it’s like a massive issue, like a girl at DD’s school was telling them horror stories about dolls coming to life (!) which I would also deal with at home. All kids tend to be in the moment so at your DD’s age I would expect them to deal at school and you to deal with home stuff.

I’ve found that leaving DD to calm down, sometimes I encourage her to use soothing things (like fidget cube, she has a bubble popper thing) until she’s calmer. We can’t reason with her when she’s like that so we wait til she calms down.

I think she feels out of control when things happen that she doesn't like, the shouting and screaming is her way of trying to gain control of others and the situation. This may have come from a bit of the world revolves around her generated by the unwell episode, covid etc,etc. You need to let her know the world does not revolve around her, that she doesn't need to control everything, it is ok, she is ok, her world is ok, you are ok. Children are very good at understanding and she can control herself , explain to her how over the top and unnecessary her actions are, tell her it is not ok . This will create firm, strong boundaries for her that will ease her anxiety and help her to adjust to everything that is going on. When she does change her behaviour In whatever small way praise her and show her that you are a team working on this together....

I wouldn't punish her, for the reasons you've given. At first I tried punishing DS but it was a disaster. It just made him anxious and so his behaviour got worse at home and school. Later when he was waiting for assessments I felt it was unfair to punish him anyway because I didn't know what expectations to have - like you I didn't know what he could help and what he couldn't. I let the school deal with it in school unless the teacher specifically asked me to do something. The school were happy with this and I went to a parenting group where the leader (an experienced health visitor) supported me in really emphasising the positive with DS - praising and rewarding every good thing he did, really letting him know that I thought well of him - and keeping things calm and friendly at home.

I followed the "kids do well if they can" principle from Explosive Child. If your DD is screaming more quietly in school then that suggests she already knows that she should be quiet but she can't control herself fully in the monent, so punishing her more wont help. Once you know what her issues are it should be possible to avoid some of these situations, and once you know some skills she can learn to keep herself calm then you and the school can reward her for trying them (even if they don't always work and she ends up in a screaming fit!)

Later on I did some rewarding of "less-bad" behaviour. My DS had a communication issue so if he used words - however rude or inappropriate! - that was better than getting physical. I responded to the content of what he was saying - I treated a screamed "give me!" the same as "please may I have it Mummy" How do I know it wasn't spoiling him? Because his behaviour got better not worse, he could cope with more situations, he was polite more of the time. He tried. He is grown up now and has control and sometimes I can still see him stop and think "how to say things".

We have an IEP or an action plan for every child on our SEN register. Possibly ask the school to see this? Or maybe ask for the reason she is on the register and what support has been put in place as a result of this?

Both you and the teacher sound great. Your little girl is in good hands

It sounds as if she needs time to settle back into a new normal. Lockdowns have had a huge impact on children, especially the early years, and I don't feel like a light is yet being shone on the issues that will stem from this.

If she was a student in my class... I'd give her time, support but firm boundaries.

As my child... probably the same. I'm not entirely sure no screen time would help with shouting in school. I think natural consequences are better than punishment, would she link that punishment with the shouting in school.

Might be far better for her teacher to have firm boundaries in place and an immediate consequence linked to raising her voice.

That said, I also think rewards are far more effective than a consequence. Is the teacher praising her for use of a quieter voice? Or just drawing attention to the loud voice? When I've dealt with situations like this at work, praising a child for demonstrating the positive behaviours frequently is far more effective than drawing attention to the negative.

Also- have the school identified what her SEN are? Or have they just added her name to a register? Have they completed an IEP?

I understand the school's needing a quick fix but they need to be a bit more understanding and I am sorry but you may need to firm up and ensure dd knows your expectations of her. Explaining very clearly what the ongoing effects of her behaviour will create for her. She is relearning how to socialise and with a bit of time I am sure she will recalibrate her relationships...she has had a doubly difficult year and children need reassurance and stability to get back on an even keel. She is still very young ...

That’s how my DD phrases it too. That she can’t help it and she doesn’t know why but if it things don’t happen as she’s expecting or as she wants she gets “mad”.

The book the Explosive Child is good because as pp says it’s not diagnosis specific but the strategies tend to help with most children who are struggling to express their frustrations.

Can autism be considered when only one or perhaps two typical 'symptoms' are shown?

If you get a referral they usually look for a range of different issues (what I meant by "the usual suspects" ) Autism is only one of them.

Of course we cant diagnose over the internet and even after I had read a whole book or two on autism (while waiting for the assessments!) I did not thnk my DS had autism, he did not seem to me to have more than one or two traits, though there was nothing else that fitted the bill either. But I sat with him through the professional assessments and they showed up issues that I would never have guessed myself. He was much less able (in certain ways, especially social communication) than I realised and he had to rely on his intellect to make up for them. Which wore him out and didn't always work.

I personally would not wait before trying to get a referral, because your DD's friendships and her education are already being affected by her temper, and whether the cause turns out to be autism or something different the referrals should still get some support for her problems and some advice for you. She could easily be on a waiting list several months or longer, and if her problems resolve themselves naturally in the meantime then you can just call and cancel.

Another thought... all behaviour is communication. When she has these meltdowns... what is she trying to tell you/ the teacher? Something that she can't verbalise?

I'm no expert, but Could she possibly have ADHD. I'm sort of in the same predicament with my ds. His older sister has diagnosed Asd. I think the school suspect, but haven't actually done anything in terms of taking it any further. He shouts a lot too, and can be hyper active. I know it presents itself a bit differently in girl's.

@Beebityboo, teacher and mama to a possibly autistic little boy.

Firstly, you know your child better than the teacher, especially after these long gaps in lockdown. You are better placed to decide if a referral is needed and can go to the GP to get this ball rolling.

What adjustments are school making to ensure your child is supported? Your child has had a lot of upheaval this year so it is not entirely surprising they are acting out.

Re the shouting. Does she actually realise she is shouting? Can this be addressed by making her aware of it- visual volume control? Rather than consequence in school?

School should be working with you to identify her triggers and putting a plan in place to prevent this behaviour happening.

One book that’s helped me with my dd is the highly sensitive child... it basically
explains that some children have a different disposition to others making them
more sensitive and some
ways to understand manage the pressures they are feeling. It says about 10% people
fall into this category / type and since reading it I can recognise in myself too.

Another one who thinks autism should be considered. IME schools are not great at recognising the signs in girls (especially academically able ones) as they present so differently than the ‘typical’ autism recognised in boys.

Even if this is not the case many of the strategies developed for autistic girls may be useful with the issues you have.

Has she been evaluated for the usual suspects? She sounds as if she could possibly be on the autism spectrum - she wants to be social but her behaviour is starting to interfere with friendships, and the unpredicatable extreme tantrums over things that (from the outside) seem very minor. And as you know from your son, autism can look very different in different children, and girls especially can present very differently from the "traditional" view of autism.

My advice would be to go the GP and ask for a referral to CAMHS (children's mental health) for assessments. The fact that she shows this behaviour at school as well as home means it is worth taking seriously. And it takes a long time to get referrals, so the sooner you start the better. When my DS started to have problems his school said they would refer to the educational psychologist but that I should also go to the GP and ask for a CAMHS referral, because there was a long wait for both and DS would be helped by whoever saw him first! My DS was also a very ordinary five year old until things didn't go his way, and then things would get really out of hand very fast. He was diagnosed with an ASC.

And a book that I found very useful was Ross Greene's Explosive Child book and Lives in The Balance website. It's not just for kids with autism and it has some good strategies for de-escalating tantrums.

When she was very unwell I suspect your parenting was rightly very caring and attentive and she enjoyed that level, the last year has been very strange and unsettling for very young children. Is it possible that her screaming and shouting is a causal effect of feeling unsettled and craving the hyper-attention from being unwell to alleviate the stress caused by her illness, starting school and covid Lockdowns...'Tis a lot of processing for a little one. I would not be inclined to go down SEN diagnosis routes for another year. I believe your own intuition is correct. I would explain to her the consequences of screaming/shouting and alienating friends and allow her to settle into school again and leave her be. Should the situation not improve down the line then obviously readdress it then. Good luck Op.