to think her behaviour is tearing apart our family?

Sounds a lot like me as a child, I was diagnosed with ASD in my 30s. DD is very similar at 6. Last year we had a nightmare time where she refused to get dressed...nothing ‘felt nice’, spent a fortune in uniform. Finally (after much unpicking) got her to tell me she was being bullied in the playground. I went into school, the situation was dealt with and she’s much happier now.

I highly recommend the book ‘The explosive child’ by Ross Greene. It helps you recognise the communication behind the behaviour (as a pp said, behaviour is communication!). The lovely thing about the book is it’s not aimed at parents with any particular diagnosis, it just helps you understand things better.

I have an 8 year old exactly like this .

at home , loud , argumentative, violent , high pitch screaming ,rude , won't get dressed , won't go to bed , won't get up, won't wash or brush her hair , wont do anything without a row about it ,the cause of most argument between me and my DH etc

At school and I quote " gifted and talented in all area , an absolute delight "

One morning I got her to school an hour late , I was on my knees with it all , I was a snotty , crying mess and the head just happened to catch me , after telling her about it she arranged for the school nurse to come in and over a period of a few months she was referred to various agencies for assessment.

All referrals have been refused , CAAMHS have said she doesn't met their criteria (based on paper , they won't even offer her a first appt) , OT isn't interested, G.P said she just needed better boundaries ( maybe a bit true , but some days I just can't face the battle so if she goes to school unwashed and unbrushed , wears wrong weather clothes or has spent 3 hours screaming so be it )

Social services gave me a parenting booklet and wished me luck . School nurse is still monitoring her and checks in with me every few weeks but that's the only support i and she has .

If you find an answer , let me know . DD is amazing and I hate how I feel about her when her behaviours start , it can sometimes take me a few days to bring my own emotions down especially if it's been bad one , that's got to be affecting her too .

I hate myself more for not being able to deal with this . What makes this worse is the fact I am a conflict management and de-escalation tutor/ instructor , I teach this shit everyday , I can handle 40 adult males with challenging behaviour in a secure unit without even flinching . 1 tiny little 8 year old girl brings me to knees most days .

Not helpful to your situation OP but just so you know your not alone

When something isn’t working, you need to redial things back.

Don’t just be using words and timers, they are just outside pressures that she obviously cannot cope with, for whatever reason, at the moment.

So step right back from labelling this naughty.

It’s really pressurized in the mornings, and a high stress time. Keep it very, very unstressed. Concentrate on DD for a while and be totally calm.

I’d go in, wake her up.

Go back in 5 minutes later. Put her clothes on her bed and remind her of the first thing she needs to do. It might be taking off her top. Ask her if she wants you to stay and help, or to leave and come back fives later when she’s dressed. Just say it kindly.

If she wants you to leave, and when you come back in 5 minutes she’s not done anything. Then stay until she’s got totally undressed and has started putting on her clothes. You can turn your back to give her privacy, but tell her you won’t leave until she’s got her clothes on.

If she says no, that she’s quite capable, then say if she does two things then you will leave and come back in 2 minutes just to check.

No arguing whatsoever. No threats. Just calmly refuse to leave until she’s started.

If she’s really slow, and she’s late, then give a note to her teacher explaining she is taking longer in the morning but you are working on it. She will feel embarrassed about being late, so let that be her consequence. You probably don’t need to add to it.

Even if you have to be late yourself for a day or so that should get her back on track.

She basically needs more help.

Does she need a bit more "babying" in the mornings? My DD is the exact same age and not a morning person and while she does dress herself, she gets dressed in our room and we do keep "refocusing" her while we are getting ready ourselves. Same with breakfast, teeth, shoes, etc. She does them herself but we don't just tell her to get ready, we remind her to keep moving with each individual task.

Wanted to write because we are in exactly the same boat. DD just turned 8 and is really tough, we also have DS (10) who has ASD and ADHD.

DS's psychologist /ABA therapist and my mate who's a clinical psychologist have each separately said they don't think my DD has ASD but rather it's learnt behaviour from DS.

In our case, I do think our DD has inherited the anxiety and high-sensitivity (very easy to tip into melt-down when tired /overwhelmed) that seems to run our family but she doesn't have the whole host of other issues that DS is faced with.

In my head, I pretend she has ASD and treat her in the same way we treat DS with lots of support, timetables and routine, hoping all the while it's just hormones / being 8 / learnt behaviour and not ASD.

Good luck Instagrrr. Hope you get helpful responses on here.

Actually dd takes evening primrose tablets too, they’re great for pms/pmt

Sounds just like my high functioning autistic daughter, when she was 8 or 9 it got worse and worse, felt like we were living with an abuser :(

Got diagnosis and she was given ADs for the anxiety, it has saved our lives. We went private as NHS waiting times so long. Good luck x

there is no rush in the diagnosis system even if we did sadly

I also don't think there's much risk of you tying labels to her as if she were a parcel.

Label is a term used by people who do are ignorant of what a diagnosis really means and the benefits brought by understanding your own or your children's biggest challenges and how having the information you need to help them to thrive in difficult situations can be life-changing.

Perhaps you could tell her when to start dressing, then start your phone stopwatch. Get on with your stuff, and when she is dressed and ready, record the length of time it took her. Put the results up in a list somewhere.

Do you use any positive reinforcement to encourage her good behaviour on the days when she is not doing this? Consequences have their place but positive reward is a far more powerful motivator for behaviour.

She would far rather please you than upset you. If you work your way up praising even the mildest behaviour you want to encourage and work from there it will help. You can introduce a treat as a reward - either a chocolate button for a small good behaviour, perhaps introducing a jar of marbles that results in a great treat when filled once she understands what the good behaviours are - she can put a marble in every time she does something good, and has to take one out for poor behaviour.

It's important children understand the criteria for success. If I ask a room full of people to draw a house for a competition they will all draw something that looks vaguely like a house. If I fail to tell them that a roof will give them 5 points and they will be given 10 points per window and 20 for a chimney then I have failed to tell them how they can win which isn't fair. Some will win by chance and some by fluke.

i saved this post from a few months back read the suggestions from hijenny35
amazing post
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/a3739780-Help-me-please?msgid=91479512#91479512

@itsamood - I was thinking the same thing. However, apparently in today's world there is no such thing as a simple pain in the arse when it comes to children!!!!

My younger DD was like that in the mornings. I also had a job and had to be there on time. One morning I went in to get her and she was sitting on the side of the bed, clothes beside her. I snatched up the clothes in one hand and her in the other. I put them both in the car and said if she wasn't dressed by the time we got to school - 15 minutes - she could go into school and dress in the restroom. She screamed all the way there but she got out of the car dressed. From then on I only had to pick up her clothes and head for the car and she went into top gear!

I'm so sorry she spat in your face OP. That must have been heartbreaking for you. I have no advice as I only have a 3 year old DS so no experience with children your DD's age but I just wanted to say I hope you are ok and that you get things sorted out soon

Hormones.

Don’t rush to give her a label or diagnosis.

Evening primrose or starflower oil.

Girls with ASD can expend huge amounts of energy on masking in school. Although it's exhausting, that doesn't mean they automatically dislike school. They can thrive on the routine particularly.

However, the stress of keeping under the radar, watching others to work out how to act in a socially appropriate way, managing the emotions caused by unexpected and planned changes to routine and the extra effort required to follow instructions and organise yourself will take their toll on a child in some way.

It may be that she wants to go to school as it's part of her normal routine but also dreads the pressure she feels there.

It may be that she doesn't understand her own emotions well enough to recognise the stress school places on her.

I was thinking ASD before I read that your DS has it. it definitely warrants some investigation. In the meantime, I would try to reduce demands, increase the predictability and routine in her life, cut down on activities that could cause sensory or social overload (even ones she enjoys if necessary) and see if you can reduce the anxiety and stress she might be experiencing. Whether this helps or not will give you valuable information in terms of the potential for a diagnosis of ASD.

www.ahaparenting.com/parenting-tools/family-life/kids-morning-routine

This is for younger kids, but I think the basics may well hold true. And as far as ASD goes, if that's a factor, this approach is still likely to be very effective, in my experience.

In the last year, my DS (9) has had dyspraxia and ASD diagnosed. Masks beautifully at school... I get the fall out...

He is not and never has been a morning person.

We've had a few breakthroughs on morning routine. One was when he was about 7 (after the horror of SATs... there was obvious but undiagnosed dyslexia thrown in too) and I opened up to the idea that there was more than dyslexia going on, and dropped "normal" age expectations over things like tooth brushing (co-ordination and sensory minefields) and took it over.

The other was using the fact that he is highly motivated to Minecraft. So the morning rule is that he must get dressed TO HIS SOCKS (very important detail ) then he is allowed Minecraft until breakfast time (he likes his food so that's a decent motivator) then the teeth/ hair/ shoes/ coat stage is done in quickfire shortly after. It is best left to the last minute and done with relentless pressure as we drift off in surplus time. I have always insisted to both DCs that it is your problem if you are late, but it is not fair to make it your brother's problem. (Admittedly DS1 did miss half his brother's birthday party as I insisted that he was not going without brushing his teeth, so DH took DS2 and I waited it out for over 45 mins for DS1 to be in a fit state to go)

He can struggle to shut down at night. Our expectation is that he rests quietly. If he comes down, the TV goes off/ is paused until he goes back to bed. Occasionally, he is clearly so alert that resistance is futile, and a temporary time to return to bed.

The diagnosis has helped with picking battles and recognising when logic is shutting down and a meltdown is brewing. He is getting better at going to his room (safe/ calm space) although it does help that I am still able to present a choice of him taking himself there or me taking him. At least him still being light enough to carry, the routine that he will be in his room has been established. He's then given a choice of does he want me (quiet or talking) or alone.

DS struggles to appologise, so after a meltdown we tend to debrief, what it was about, any other worries, better choices to make next time and hugging it out. Sometimes he needs tight squeezy hugs.

Here you go it's not the cheapest but absolutely great for getting kids moving in the morning! www.exploreyoursenses.co.uk/big-red-timer.html (this sort of thing you can find similar online)

This sounds like anxiety to me. Could be due to another issue (pda, adhd), could be plain anxiety.

I agree with pp who've said you should treat it as "can't", not "won't". Kids dont act like this for fun. They do the best with what they have.

There are certain things in the OP and the follow up posts that chime with autism (which is ASD btw), especially when she has a sibling with ASD. People with ASD and parents of children with ASD (or other SNs) are picking up those things for a reason. Nobody’s saying that’s what it is - how could we? - but what OP has said paints a picture which to several of us suggests that it could be a factor, in which case standard parenting techniques may not work, and might actually make it worse, especially if there’s a demand-avoidant profile involved.