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Here you'll find advice from parents and teachers on special needs education.

Original poster

SEN currently in mainstream. Should we move her?

31 replies

alittlebitsocial · 29/11/2019 18:28

Hey all,

My daughter is 12 and currently in year 8 in a mainstream larger average secondary school. She has an EHCP and apart from being allocated an LSA to help her during lessons, no other interventions have been arranged with regard to her learning. I have asked the SENCO three times since May 2019, if they plan to implement any interventions and have been fobbed off due to a change in SENCO, to be then told that we will be supplied with an IEP within a couple of months to being totally ignored.

This has been happening since year 7 and no one wants to address the situation, she has been given an app named Lexia which she completes at home and is pretty useless. Her EHCP, states that she should have literacy and numeracy interventions in small activity groups external from class.

I'm not usually one to complain, I have a younger son in a special school with much greater needs and these needs are met as per his EHCP.

Am I asking too much? I just want a general plan as to how they intend to help her, so far I think we are expected to pay for external tutors. She is likely to fail her GCSE's without proper support.

We recently made aware of an independent school with amazing dyslexia and special needs attachment. We toured the school yesterday and it was amazing, we certainly feel like you have to pay to get the education she needs. Now the fees are not ridiculously expensive, she could apply for a performing arts scholarship and could be topped up by a bursary, my mother in law has offered a little support but I'm wondering what the likelihood of our LEA approving additional financial support. I have read so much about making sure that it doesn't exhause public funds. I'm not expecting them to fit the bill for the full £11k a year but perhaps assist with her extra tuition and intervention support.

The reasons we think the school would be a better fit:

  1. Classes of 12 not 30 pupils
  2. Small school of less than 500 pupils (it's a 2 - 16 years old)
  3. Dyslexia and learning support attachment giving them options to drop non-core subjects to help with the study of core subjects
  4. Her self-esteem has taken a battering over the last year and teachers haven't helped

I could give you a list. Has anyone ever been in a similar situation, unfortunately, I don't live in an area with many schools with dyslexia units. I know I will have a fight on my hands but she loves the school, it would be the perfect fit for her and just talking to the SENCO at the school was refreshing. I want my daughter to feel confident going to school not being told by teachers that she's failing because she can't hit 80% in a maths test!

Sorry I know I've gone on a lot, but I wanted to explain in a little detail where are currently at.

Please feel free to drop me a comment, positive or negative. I'm up for hearing it all!

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10brokengreenbottles · 08/01/2020 20:15

When you get an amended EHCP make sure the provision specific and quantified, otherwise the school you want to move DD to my not be any better, and without a specific and quantified section F you can't force the LA to ensure the support is provided.

If SENCO of the school you want to move to is going to attend the early review then surely the current school are going to find out anyway?

Original poster
alittlebitsocial · 08/01/2020 19:36

Hi all,

So after much hassle by email to my DD's SENCO, she replied after I raised further concerns about so-called voluntary maths 'detention' and suggested that perhaps rather than it is labelling it like that, having to miss her lunch she should be able to attend her homework club where she could be supported by an LSA and not her teacher. The SENCO agreed this was a better idea! It took me suggesting it mind!

Her email ignored my request for a break down of targets, stating that they are meeting her need, shes happy and that the targets will be addressed at her review in may 2020. This was 16th December, so I wrote to the LA, requesting an early review, they agreed based on the school not having set targets and issues with teachers. It's due to be held by the end of this month!

SENCO then called me two days before christmas break and explained that she wanted to address the maths issue in the new year and find a safe place for my DD outside of her classroom and away from teacher. I mentioned targets and she again said they will look at them at dd's review! Not good enough.

I am fed up of being fobbed off so contacted LA as mentioned and they suggested I raise a complaint with the school as well as agreeing to the early review based on the fact it's basically rubbish.

Today, I heard from the independent schools SENCO. Who had a telephone meeting with Hampshire to discuss funding. Part of the battle is won as school we want have agreed it is the best place for DD. She's previously worked with LA's to access funding so I have all my fingers, toes crossed. They just have to make sure if they accept DD that the funding doesn't fall flat and they can't meet need. So it's a waiting game. SENCO at new school has agreed to attend early review for support.

I asked the LA for an early review without involving current schools SENCO, to say she wasn't pissed off on her return from Christmas is an understatement. She was extremely rude and suddenly jumped on the arranging of early review without involving LA. Stating that I only had to ask. I did explain that it was badly written and things need addressing. Oops. I never was one for confrontation.

My next question is, I haven't told the current school that we are looking elsewhere, I was awaiting confirmation that chosen school was an option before telling them. LA are now aware due to conversation with new schools SENCO. Will they tell the current school?

I don't feel confident enough walking into review meeting and stating 'we want to move her school'. I have to get used to confrontation as this is my dd's education we are talking about but it fills me with dread.

Any advice would be gratefully appreciated.

Many Thanks

Gemma

OP posts:
Original poster
alittlebitsocial · 15/12/2019 22:18

Thank you Ellie. Yeah, I've been trying to get an appointment for a week. No luck yet and now technical issues. I'll keep trying

OP posts:
Ellie56 · 15/12/2019 21:08

You can always contact IPSEA on their advice line for free legal advice.

Having said that there seems to be a technical problem at the moment, but this is the usual link.

www.ipsea.org.uk/advice-line

Original poster
alittlebitsocial · 15/12/2019 19:52

Thank you Ellie, I have drafted a letter to the LA, siting my concerns and her anxiety.

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Ellie56 · 14/12/2019 17:49

As the SENCO is so useless, forget about the school and contact the LA directly and ask for an urgent annual review, (you don't have to wait until May) citing her anxiety and meltdowns, school not meeting her needs etc.

My post upthread gives you the links to IPSEA advice and model letter for this.

Original poster
alittlebitsocial · 14/12/2019 08:42

Hi everyone,

Thought I'd offer an update. Heard from her senco at current school (finally). I'm convinced its because prospective school called them for advice.

She gave me lots of pretty useless stuff about DD being distracted in class and being tired no mention of her anxiety! DD had a meltdown before school on Thursday due to maths. I pointed out that her anxiety and self esteem isn't better, shes just excellent at hiding it. She told her LSA she felt unwell when she cried in class this week. Rather than the truth that she was overwhelmed.

In my previous email, I had asked for confirmation of her short term targets. Still wasnt answered. Senco said, we are meeting her needs as set out in her ehcp. Before saying that we will discuss this further at her review meeting! This is in May 2020! Shes basically covering herself because when I go to LA and argue she can say but we meet her needs. The truth is they can't because the ehcp is written so badly! She highlighted support in class and literacy support that was it!

I can't just let it go. My DD's education depends greatly on how she feels, if her anxiety is high and her self esteem low then it will continue to affect her learning.

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10brokengreenbottles · 11/12/2019 21:34

Yes, LAs don't like to specify and quantify provision because they can be held to account. But an EHCP that isn't specific and quantified isn't lawful and can be taken to tribunal. See IPSEA.

Original poster
alittlebitsocial · 11/12/2019 13:55

Thank you 10brokengreenbottles, I have compiled a list of other schools that may be suitable which include Limpsfield Grange and Moon Hall.

I was told by another parent that LA's don't like to be specific because they often fail and parents can then argue, they just put it in rough terms so no tribunals can be initiated.

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10brokengreenbottles · 10/12/2019 20:40

Sorry Suffolk, I must have misread your post. If the provision in the EHCP currently is rubbish the funding may be limited anyway. When thinking about More House I forgot OP's DC was a DD.

Social, LAs often try to issue unlawful EHCPs. Ask for a reassessment of needs and make sure all needs are identified and provision is specific and quantified.
Limpsfield Grange and St Dominic's may still be worth a look. Sorry, I can't help with MLD suggestions.

Original poster
alittlebitsocial · 10/12/2019 17:57

Thank you for your comments and suggestions. I have pretty much ripped her Ehcp to shreds. None of if is specific enough.

I have looked into the schools you mention. However neither her ehcp or her EP have mentioned a specific diagnosis. I asked and was told moderate learning disabilities. Which I think would struggle to get her into a school that might want a diagnosis like asd etc.

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suffolkexplorer · 10/12/2019 14:27

I know the independent school can argue a case about the 20 hours and so the parent may be able to persuade the school to take her DD but then the LEA won't provide any funding.

More House is a boys school, linpsfield grange is girls

10brokengreenbottles · 10/12/2019 14:09

Suffolk, my post wasn't saying that OP could argue her DD didn't need 20hrs 1:1 in order to get the MS indie to admit. My point was that an EHCP that states 20hrs in class support does not mean 20hrs 1:1, and therefore a school doesn't have to provide 20hrs 1:1 and you can not force the LA to provide it because it is wishy washy wording, not specific and quantified as it should be.

There's also More House, but again too far for a day placement.

suffolkexplorer · 10/12/2019 13:52

LEA will probably fund the 20 hours in an independent minus the first £6k state schools have to find from their own budget. So if a TA is needed the parents will need to fund the £6k per annum in an independent school to pay the TA. I have had to ask parents for this £6k.

However, it's true you can argue that she doesn't need the 1:1 support and that it's provided by the class teacher but the private school may not wish to run the risk.

That's why a mainstream independent schools is very tricky if you have a statement before you enter.

Limpsfield Grange a good option.

10brokengreenbottles · 10/12/2019 12:07

Look at as many schools as you can.

What about Moon Hall in Surrey?
Limpsfield Grange (would be too far for a day placement with the traffic but they offer residential) or St Dominic's in Surrey would be worth a look too.

If you want to stay with a foot in mainstream what about one of the COIN resource provisions in Surrey?

Forgive me, does your DD have ASD as well as dyslexia? If so, the Priory group Schools and Cambian group Schools both have schools in Hampshire. Or look at an ASD resource provision.

Original poster
alittlebitsocial · 09/12/2019 21:01

I'm in Hampshire, near Petersfield.

OP posts:
10brokengreenbottles · 09/12/2019 20:16

"20 hours of in-class support" does not mean 20 hours of 1:1 though. This is why provision should be specific and quantified. In theory 20 hours of in-class support could be provided by the class teachers doing very little.

Section G is health provision, educational provision should be in section F.

Look at all the schools within travelling distance. If you want to post on this thread or another where you are then people may have suggestions for you, though I appreciate you may not want to.

From your OP I took it as though the school was a mainstream school but had a good SEN department and dyslexia support? If it is MS then it won't be a Section 41 school because that only applies to special schools.

Original poster
alittlebitsocial · 09/12/2019 17:59

A little update...

I had a call from the independent school this morning from their SENCO. They have concerns that they need to meet her needs, it states she has 20 hours of in-class support, funded by the LEA/School. This is included in section G ( I think) of her statement. Obviously the LEA would need to fund this in the independent school. Which on investigation isn't a section 41 school.

We have no school in our area that is suitable with regards to section 41, strangely they are mostly boys only!

The SENCO of our prospective school is going to call the LEA and my DD's current school to discuss what they currently offer. She said they are legally bound by the ECHP to provide the same but before we can get a firm offer of a place, she needs to confirm that its possible. I have this feeling the LEA will say no without much investigation.

I'm pretty gutted, for our DD right now. She had to return to her current school this morning and she hated it.

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Original poster
alittlebitsocial · 08/12/2019 21:18

Thank you both so much for your advice. I think it definitely needs a bit of fine tuning. I feel for schools, my DD is one of 1300 pupils so I can see why she gets lost. I haven't even expected alot of them just what the EHCP states, that within 2 months of the final EHCP the school will confirm what has been put in place, what her short term targets are!! Its been 7 months! That's with 3 emails to SENCO and rushed face to face meeting in September.

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10brokengreenbottles · 08/12/2019 21:00

Myself, with EHCP provision that is specific and quantified you can complain and ultimately force the LA to provide the provision via Judicial Review. However, with phrases such as 'access to', 'small group' and other woolly wording that isn't possible.

myself2020 · 08/12/2019 14:57

@alittlebitsocial our experience was that teachers were willing, but due to no funds and 30+ kids per class only really disruptive or really confident kids were give any attention. they just don’t have the ressources

Ellie56 · 08/12/2019 13:28

It sounds as though the EHCP you have is not worth the paper it is written on, which is why you are struggling to enforce it.

Don't waste another two weeks with the school.Go straight to the LA and ask for a reassessment of her needs/urgent review of her EHCP citing the fact that the current school is not meeting her needs, that she is falling behind/failing to make progress and that it is now impacting on her mental health.

Advice here with model letters:

www.ipsea.org.uk/asking-for-an-early-review-of-an-ehc-plan

www.ipsea.org.uk/asking-for-a-re-assessment-of-a-child-or-young-persons-needs

I think you are correct in assuming you will have a battle to get the placement you want named in the EHCP. Solicitors usually advise if you want to change Section I of the Plan (Placement) then Section B(Needs) and Section F (Provision) also need to be changed. As the previous reports are over 18 months old it is not unreasonable to request new assessment reports.

It may be helpful to get an assessment done by a dyslexia specialist and psychiatrist in addition to the EP etc. Basically what you're looking for are reports that identify your daughter's needs very clearly and specifically and make very specific recommendations to meet these needs. Eg small class sizes (no more than 12 pupils) 1:1 support for x amount of hours each week provided by a person trained to work with dyslexic pupils, X amount of hours therapy per week to address her mental health needs etc.

It then follows that the school named in section I has to be able to make this provision, which would likely rule out most mainstream secondary schools.

You can make an appointment with the IPSEA advice line to talk through this further. Appointments are highly sought after and are booked up very quickly, so you have to keep checking availability if none are available the first time you look.

www.ipsea.org.uk/contact-ipsea

Incidentally is the specialist school you want a section 41 school?

Original poster
alittlebitsocial · 08/12/2019 08:41

The original reports were started in May 2018.

OP posts:
Ellie56 · 07/12/2019 20:47

How old are the assessment reports that fed into the original EHCP?

Original poster
alittlebitsocial · 05/12/2019 18:14

Thank you for all of your replies. She had her first taster day at the independent school today, auditioned for a music scholarship which thankfully if awarded does reduce the fees. As I know some schools offer free music lessons etc. She had a lovely day and she came out of school beaming! I've never seen her beam leaving school! She has another taster day tomorrow and a few more assessments. We are able to apply for a bursary and could pay towards the fees but it would be tight. I don't hold much luck getting anywhere with the LEA. If she manages to get an offer, I think I will do whatever it takes to get her there!

I've had friends fight to get their child in private special schools, schools that their children are now thriving in but it took 2 years and lots of money.

I am still awaiting a reply from my DD's current SENCO, I just asked her to confirm what her current short term targets are and yet six months and still no response. We attended parents evening yesterday, all extremely positive apart from maths. I'm sure they breed arrogant maths teachers! I feel sorry for my DD having him as a teacher! I am scarred from my own experience so I try to tread carefully what I imprint onto her.

Thank you for all your support, advice and encouragement. I do think we need to address the EHCP before May.

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