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Original poster

To give up on my son's school?

134 replies

jaffacakesaremyfave · 04/07/2017 13:51

My 8 year old DS has severe behavioural problems at school. In the past 2 years he has been excluded more times than I can count, been put on a reduced timetable once for 3 months and recently again for an indefinite period (so he's currently excluded every Friday)

His reception year at school was fine but when he moved into year 1, the problems started. We relocated due to my work and he moved school when he was at the end of year 1 and things really began to deteriorate.

He had a bad start due to racial bullying which I don't feel the school took seriously and as his behaviour became worse, they resorted to locking him in a small room until he calmed down but would often leave him there until I came to collect him even when he had calmed down.

I fought to get him into a better school which was run by the same head teacher where his older brother attends and for the first term his behaviour improved dramatically. However, over the last year we seem to be back to where we started.

The most recent incident was yesterday where he left school premises (he's never done this before) and the school rang the police. They only called me after he had gone back into school and said they called the police as they are unable to follow him when he leaves school grounds. The police never came so basically if he does this again they will leave my 8 year old son to wander around a busy main road until the police arrive.

I feel at my wits end and I don't know how things can move forward. I have had so many meetings with the school to try and manage his behaviour. He has a teaching assistant and he is extremely fond of his current class teacher but his behaviour deteriorates if neither of them are in school (like yesterday when both were at sports day all day). Next year will be horrendous as he already doesn't like his new teacher for year 4.

I've tried to get him referred to CAHMS several times through both the school and GP but these have led nowhere. His main problems seems to be about becoming frustrated if he can't do his work or if he is told off for something that he feels is unjust (like being told off for talking in class when it wasn't him talking) This leads to him either completely shutting down and becoming mute for hours on end or become destructive and swearing at teachers.

At home he is generally well behaved but we have a very close relationship and I have learned how to ask him to do things in a way that avoids conflict and if things escalate then I know how to calm him down and he always accepts his punishments (e.g losing his electrics, pocket money, can't go to football etc)

I recently had a meeting with someone from parent partnership who attended a meeting with the head and she agreed that some of the things the school were doing were not helpful (e.g if my son walked off they would tell him he's going to a PRU or back to the previous school for which they also run).

He has witnessed DV when he was very young from his father (who is now in prison and he no longer sees) and i found out last year that their father was emotionally abusing him and his brothers (which never made it to trial).

I have asked for counselling but nowhere can provide it for free so my only option is private which I can't afford. The school made a referral to a charity for young carers (after me pushing for a year to try and find an organisation that can help him) but they only offer an outing after school every fortnight and it really isn't set up for children like my son who have behavioural issues.

I've been to CAHMS in the past and done the 6 week parenting course but like I say, his behaviour at home isn't the issue and CAHMS won't deal with behavioural problems.

I feel like the school has given up on him and labelled our family as 'one of those families'. They are extremely patronising to me (comments such as 'well you do so well getting them to school looking clean' etc.)

Not that it should make a difference to how we are judged but although I am a single parent, I have always worked, have a high level of education and am in a professional career but they still seem to treat me like I'm some silly single mother who has messed up her child and assume I'm at home on benefits.

Sorry for the long post but I really do not know where to go from here. Should I move his school for a third time to one not affiliated with this one or leave my son in a school not able to manage his behaviour and potentially letting him leave the premises and not be followed.

Where do I stand legally with their position on this? Surely they have a duty of care to ensure he is safe during school hours and if they cannot manage that then they should call me immediately so I can intervene.

I am so exhausted and upset by this situation

OP posts:
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Original poster
jaffacakesaremyfave · 31/12/2020 12:09

Thankyou Flowers

OP posts:
Ellie56 · 20/12/2020 17:42

@jaffacakesaremyfave

But it is not too late to ensure your DCS get the support they need. Remember it is possible to have an EHCP until they are 25. Plenty of time to do GCSEs or whatever courses they are interested in doing.

You just need to make sure the EHC Needs Assessment is carried out properly and that the LA seeks advice from everyone they are required to seek advice from, including whoever you think appropriate -eg CAMHS, SLT, OT, Autism Specialist teacher.

Information here:www.ipsea.org.uk/ehc-needs-assessments

If you need further advice contact the IPSEA Advice Line

www.ipsea.org.uk/advice-line

Original poster
jaffacakesaremyfave · 18/12/2020 00:57

Thanks for your reply @Ellie56.

I would say my complaints go back as far as 2015 to present day. Neither DS has an EHCP but we have just managed to get school on board to complete one.

Thankfully both DS have left the previous primary and attend a different high school, however the damage has been done and we are still fighting for support 18 and 12 months after diagnosis. Sadly, eldest DS is in year 10 now and we are having to discuss dropping subjects at GCSE in a desperate bid to get him in. Both of them suffer with school anxiety and I can't help but attribute some of that to late diagnosis and previous poor treatment by school. The 2017 post was just a snapshot.

OP posts:
Ellie56 · 17/12/2020 18:16

@jaffacakesaremyfave

Yes just reading the first post before realising it was 3 years old, I immediately thought autism, unlawful exclusion, unmet needs.

You can complain about the LA, but it depends how long ago the events were that you are complaining about.

www.ipsea.org.uk/making-a-complaint-about-a-local-authority

Do your children have EHC Plans now?

Original poster
jaffacakesaremyfave · 15/12/2020 13:33

I wanted to give an update on this thread for anyone who is experiencing something similar. DS2 and DS3 have now been diagnosed with high functioning autism. Reading back through my thread, its so obvious to me now that they are aspies and the behavior DS3 was displaying was text book.

I ended up having to pay for a private diagnosis for DS3 as the waiting list for CAHMS in our area is over 2 years. Unfortunately, years of the above treatment and several more stays in the PRU (which the CP who diagnosed him confirmed it was an inappropriate setting) means that DS3 school refuses.

I feel so angry and upset reading what we went through and feel that someone would have picked up such a classic case of autism. If we had received a diagnosis earlier, things could have been so different.

P.S with the above and more since, would I have grounds to sue the LA? The situation is still pretty dire and I want change in the system.

OP posts:
Original poster
jaffacakesaremyfave · 13/07/2017 09:22

Thanks everyone. I spoke to IPSEA this morning who made it clear that the 'reduced timetable' my son is currently on is illegal. She recommended EHCP application too so hats my first priority now. She said not to worry about son not being on SEN register because using the room etc are all interventions so I have evidence of those at least. She also was shocked at how bad the school have managed my son and said I should start to escalate my complaints through the governors etc.

The head from the school he tried on Monday is coming to the TAC but I'm not sure why as she said she didn't want my son back at their school. Would they really ask her to come just to say how awful his behaviour was? I really hope not as I don't want the focus of the meeting to be about that, I want it to be about how to move forward, what we can put in place to manage etc.

The school has a gate to the playground which can be opened by pushing a button on the wall which my son can reach. There is then a courtyard area with a gate but no locks which leads straight out to a main road and 4 way crossing. I read the government guidelines about physical restraint of a child and they can be used to prevent the child harming themselves if reasonable force is used. At the very least they could stand in front of the gate to prevent him pressing the button or lock the gate onto the road.

When he is running off during a meltdown, he's not thinking straight and I'm worried one day he'll just run into the road Sad

OP posts:
Kariana · 13/07/2017 08:48

Low I'm actually a teacher, it's not nonsense. We were repeatedly told we shouldn't follow one of our pupils around the school when he left the classroom because he was seeing the chase as attention for his behaviour. They said if there was any way for him to get out the school we weren't following proper safeguarding procedures. Even if he could leave the building outside gates should be locked so he can't get off the grounds.

Ceto · 12/07/2017 13:38

If the LA refuses the first step in the EHCP process, i.e. assessment, you have a right of appeal which you should use. It's a relatively easy process as the appeal itself is dealt with on paper, and people like IPSEA and SOS SEN can help with this. I would suggest you contact them ASAP.

GreenTulips · 12/07/2017 13:19

Also - where I work we have NT children who need additional help - and they get it - no jumping through hoops

School should be set up to deal with him

Shybutnotretiring · 12/07/2017 13:08

I could be wrong but a lot of your son's behaviours at school sound like ASD to me (especially the bolting and not coping). I think the school sound awful but there's always a danger that you'll end up jumping from one frying pan to another. You need diagnosis and EHCP in order to pinpoint the right school. I think a lot of people get ASD diagnoses from CAMHS but ours came via GP referral to paediatrician. Apologies if I am way off track with the ASD suggestion!

MNHQ
LornaMumsnet · 11/07/2017 09:39

Hi all,

The OP has asked us to send this thread over to SEN and so we're just doing this now.

Flowers
Original poster
jaffacakesaremyfave · 11/07/2017 08:50

I agree Green, what happened to 'every child matters'!!! It seems they only matter if they don't have additional needs.

I am going to apply for the EHCP myself but doubt it will be successful. My understanding is that it's then next step up if SEN interventions are not working but he's not even in the SEN register so I have no evidence of interventions not working etc.

I've asked for evidence of all exclusions etc from head and I'm going to see how things go at the TAC meeting on Monday but if I still feel like they are unwilling to help, I'm going to write to the board of governors, head of education in our LA and our local MP.

After two years of fighting I'm just exhausted by all this and it's time they started to take my concerns seriously.

OP posts:
iamUberA · 11/07/2017 07:34

Apply for a EHCP yourself! Ask over on the SEN boards how to do it.
You do not need the schools permission and will trigger things like an assessment of needs by an Educational psychologist.
You can definitely get one for behaviour.

GreenTulips · 10/07/2017 20:30

Id agree it's a trust issue - they don't like him and he knows it -

They are destroying his confidence and 'love of learning' - yes he's being an arse - but it's a reaction to the adults around him - which no doubt has an effect on how the children treat him.

Original poster
jaffacakesaremyfave · 10/07/2017 20:13

Thank you Wolfie, I feel responsible because I chose such an utter wanker to be his father. Because of this he's had the worst start in life and he is clearly very damaged/disturbed.

They still talk about him making 'bad choices' like he chooses not to do work but what lies behind that is embarrassment at being behind, fear or being humiliated etc. His self esteem is on the floor and he hides it by being rude and aggressive as an avoidance tactic.

I feel awful now because I really lost my temper with him when we got home. He took it well and went straight to his room and apologised to me afterwards.

Apparently the new school have had to ring other parents to apologise for my son's swearing. I just never thought things could get this bad Sad

OP posts:
Original poster
jaffacakesaremyfave · 10/07/2017 20:06

Can't, it's not with my agreement.

The head emailed

'The reduced timetable for Friday is still in place if we are to be given support by yourself to try and manage his behaviour currently and avoid further exclusions until the end of term. It will be reviewed each week as agreed with the local authority. That is a decision I have taken with my governors full approval if we are to manage him here. It is a condition of him remaining at any school at present.'

I think she added the line 'if we are given support by yourself' to make it look like I agree when I've made it clear I don't

OP posts:
Wolfiefan · 10/07/2017 20:04

You haven't let him be seriously messed up at all. He's clearly finding certain things really incredibly difficult. He needs support in school and to develop coping mechanisms to work alongside school strategies. He's not messed up at all.

Original poster
jaffacakesaremyfave · 10/07/2017 20:01

Thank you Can't, I wish you could come to the meeting on Monday with me and say that to them!! I do feel like I'm doing their job for them Green. Every little simple exercise is a battle such as getting him an IEP. Surely I'm not asking over and above their duty as a school to do these things.

He can't really explain why he gets so upset. I think he is very eager to please and once he's been told off or spoken to in a firm tone then it's a downward spiral. It's like it's all or nothing for him.

He got upset at the meeting today because he felt like it was one long bollocking going through each event throughout the day. It was hard for me to listen to but obviously I have adult coping skills that he lacks and he just wanted to run out. It's when I tried to catch him that he lashed out at me.

I feel like the head is gloating a little bit. Her email to me today started with

'The Head has rung me from new school deeply shocked at DS's behaviour in school and feels unable to manage him at their school after just one day'

I feel like answering why has it come to this then! Why didn't anyone intervene earlier! There's only so much I can do as a parent and I've been begging for help for two years. He's obviously deteriorated to the point of not being able to cope in a mainstream school so why won't they refer him to a specialist!

What annoys me the most is that to get any help, you have to prove the interventions put in place didn't work but because there haven't been any substantial interventions, we are starting from square one when things are already so bad.

Another email from the head when I asked why he hasn't been assessed as SEN her reply was

'DS is at age expected for maths, his reading and writing have slipped recently below expectation as he is choosing not to do the work set in the lessons. He is capable of doing it but doesn’t enjoy literacy as much as he does numeracy. If this pattern continued next year and he was at my school then we would then have to consider putting him on the SEN register for literacy.'

Surely his behaviour is a 'barrier to learning' and needs to be addressed.

OP posts:
Cantchooseaname · 10/07/2017 19:47

It's my understanding that it is legal to have reduced timetable with your agreement. The implicit threat seems to be that they will move to permanent exclusion if you don't agree.
You say you have allowed him to become messed up ... you have also given him what qualified professionals can't- the space and relationship to trust you. To be able to work through things and develop emotionally.

If he can function at home I am sure you will find a setting that will suit him. It may be a long road, but he needs the confidence that comes from having you in his corner.

GreenTulips · 10/07/2017 19:29

What concerns me is that you are trying to do the schools job - you shouldn't have too and this seems to be the main issue - by not doing X Y Z they are effectively making his life difficult so you have no choice but to move - it happens!!

What you should be doing is saying what you want

I want DS in school full time
I want DS to have 1:1
I want a plan when X happens
I want real assurance that Y doesn't happen

Original poster
jaffacakesaremyfave · 10/07/2017 19:13

Thanks Wolfie, I do feel responsible. He's my son and I've obviously let him become seriously messed up. I cried in front of the head, I just feel so lost. I'll ask for the three to be moved.

WORK, thank you for your post. They no longer lock him in a room (this was at the sister school) but I now know this was completely wrong and shouldn't have happened. He's now allowed to find a room to sit in if he becomes overwhelmed but he is often followed (I know this is for his safety) which winds him up more. He's not allowed back at the school he started today so he's back to the old school tomorrow. If there are places that can deal with faecal smearing then surely there is somewhere that can deal with my son!!

Green, I have never questioned whether he actually does these things, I know he does I've just never seen it first hand. He's never tried to kick me before. The head has agreed to a TAC meeting on Monday and I've requested he get assessed for SEN, referred to a behavioural specialist (recommended by SENDIAS to do a Boxall assessment), referral to EP and to stop reduced timetable. School agreed to discuss these issues on Monday but refused to stop the reduced timetable and said I had to comply with it to keep him at current school. She copied in the exclusion officer to that email so I guess it must be legal to not provide a full time education for my son.

I don't know what else to ask for a referral to.

OP posts:
Cantchooseaname · 10/07/2017 18:43

It makes me so mad that you are embarrassed. The school should be embarrassed about the lack of support, guidance and help.
What does your head suggest the next plan should be? Are you going to try to transition to yr 4 where he is?

If you talk to your son out of they're heat of the moment can he shed any light on the reasons for his behaviour? Does he know he is going to loose it?

GreenTulips · 10/07/2017 18:36

Now you have seen how he behaves at school - can you not push for a referral or special school?

WORKWORKWORKWORKWORKWORK · 10/07/2017 17:47

I've rejoined Mumsnet just to comment on this thread. You sound like an amazing mum OP!
Firstly, from my experience working as a teacher in a SEN school, children have to be allowed to leave a safe room whenever they want. They're not supposed to be blocked in there. (This was the case with a boy who had issues with faecal smearing too!)
Furthermore, I had a child who acted similar when I was doing my teacher training year. At first I would punish & reprimand, but then found that actually if I did "pre-learning" during reading time (introducing the basics of what we would be learning that day) this was a confidence boost for the child so he wouldn't feel overfaced at the work. Plus this also built his confidence as he was able to then model how to do the work on the board to his peers.
If you can manage your DS's behaviour, then so can the school. If he moves to this new school, the SENCO should agree an individual behaviour plan with him & give him small targets that are achievable.
No way should the staff have threatened your DS with the PRU or his old school. No wonder he doesn't trust them!

Wolfiefan · 10/07/2017 16:17

I'm so sorry. Perhaps get this moved from AIBU or start a new thread. Must be people who have faced similar situations and can advise you.
Don't be ashamed. You aren't making him behave like this and you clearly only want what's best for him. Flowers