My Son with possible ASD is being excluded at school -- HELP!

Glad you've found IPSEA OP. They are brilliant.

'This really is county dependent. In my current county they are only given for placement in specialist settings (RB & SS). MS children are given additional funding over 6K through a matrix system. The entire system would be inaccessible from a Prep.'

As a blanket policy that is illegal.

And I have seen (admittedly rare) EHCPs with no funding at all attached to them.

'varies from LEA to LEA but in my experience for school starters (I'm sure others will have had different experiences);

Learning and Cognition- at least 3-4 years 'behind' e.g. a 4yo at 12mo goals.'

Good grief!!! OP - the law does not vary from one LA to the next and to set barriers like this to receiving an EHCP is illegal.

My reasoning behind independent reports is that OP will get a far more accurate assessment of her child's needs than she would by relying on the reports from professionals employed by the LEA. If they are expert witness professionals then if it is needed she could use those reports at Tribunal and so it would save assessments twice over which isn't recommended and doubles the expense. However it makes it far easier to argue need if you have the reports when applying.

I don't think anyone is saying to go to tribunal! I just think it's a process that exists to support children with SEN and people suggesting that to get a statement, a 4 yo has to be communicating at 12mo level is playing right into the hands of those who would stop parents asserting their right to assessment.

Straight away, I would say that a child who 'swats' other children is a child in need of close supervision. I would not want my child 'swatted' by another child. It isn't appropriate behaviour and an adult is needed to mediate those situations.

High pitched vocal stimming suggests the child isn't coping in the environment. The fact that he can be focused with 1:1 support suggests that he needs adult support to engage with his environment.

I agree that he could do better in a supportive MS school, but it's obvious he will require significant support and if he needs such support in YR R then it's likely he'll need more as work is more formalised because although the structure will help, the amount of sitting and concentrating will increase. Also, with significant S&L delay, accessing learning will be difficult.

it might well be possible to get an EHCP, but from the needs OP is describing and the processes that the school have carried out so far, it will probably be at tribunal. I don't see that telling OP to go down that route is in her best interests at this point, when the pragmatic thing to do would be to move him to a school that is willing to work with him and capable of doing so, in which case it will soon become clear whether an EHCP is actually needed and then it will be provided with the school supporting, instead of advising OP to spend 1000s on solicitors taking a LA to court for an EHCP to prop up a school place which, we all agree, is probably toxic. No?

Some counties may be worse than others but I don't think it's helpful (or factual) to tell a poster she won't get a EHC plan and have that poster go away thinking it's not worth trying.

It is perfectly possible to get an EHC plan

This really is county dependent. In my current county they are only given for placement in specialist settings (RB & SS). MS children are given additional funding over 6K through a matrix system. The entire system would be inaccessible from a Prep.

Again would agree with Lougle needs don't have to be as severe as quoted and behaviour doesn't have to be challenging. Dd got her statement at three she has never misbehaved in her life.She got a stupidly high EYFS score (I think just 8 off maximum possible even with a statement) and at 12 she is in the top 10% ability wise in her huge 2000 pupil secondary,she still has a TA supporting her for the majority of the time.
Contact IPSEA or SOSSEN save the £600 effectively being wasted on support in a school that doesn't want him and use it for independent assessments by an ed psych, SALT and OT even better make sure they are able to be expert witnesses use these reports and IPSEA or SOSSEN to secure your EHCP and get ds a school able and willing to support his needs.
Can your son go back to nursery where he was happy and supported?

I agree with everyone else - this is not the best school for your child - they are failing him. Contact your local state primary and see what provision they have. I think you'll be very pleasantly surprised.

This current situation is horrible for all of you and you should stop it before it affects your son's confidence, if it hasn't already, as well as your daughter's.

My advice for what it's worth

1- Move him from this school, they don't want him and don't intend to support him so focus your energy into helping your son in a school that will rather than fighting with his current school

2- It is perfectly possible to get an EHC plan for your son I strongly disagree that he has to have severe behaviour/developmental problems in order to get one IME.

3- Contact IPSEA for advice

I agree with Lougle. Ehc plans vary so much from council to council. I know lots of families (including ours) who have or are in the process of having ehc plans for their children who are much less severe than the given examples above. It really does depend whether their needs can be met with additional support over and above the £6k or whether they can only be met in a special school. My son is verbal for example but has prosocial communication disorder so generally doesn't volunteer information or engage appropriately and will sometimes just agree with something without really understanding it. However he does speak in sentences. He has quite severe sensory issues relating to autism (has to be taken out of class for music related activities as these cause a meltdown) and won't go anywhere near a toilet due to hand dryers (another meltdown). He isn't remotely near toilet trained and probably won't be for years yet. He won't do any writing or drawing and needs someone to sit virtually on top of him to get him to sit in a chair to do anything. He is obsessed with road signs and any public signs to the point that every conversation is littered with "what's that sign?" over and over and over while he points to various exit signs / fire signs / alarms etc etc.

There is no way he would cope in mainstream at all.

I wouldn't say it has to be so severe for an EHCP or a special school, tbh. DD1 was statemented at 4.0 years and a special school named to take her at 4.9 years. She had a spiky profile with moderate to severe delay in most areas, with no sense of danger and was 'flighty'. She had a known brain malformation by that point but her general label was 'global development delay'. She's now year 5 and operates at old level 1-2 in all areas, so about 3-4 years behind academically, but is likely to still operate at those levels in year 6 because progress is slow. She generally operates functionally at around half her age, so is at 4-5 yo level at almost 10 yo.

To get an EHCP you need to demonstrate that more than 6k of support would be necessary in a MS school (12-15 hrs TA time) or that his needs can only be met in a SS - you can't attend SS without an EHCP.

If they are claiming the eyfs funding for him , surely they are obliged to provide 15 hours minimum. Also it will have been Ofsted inspected which might give you the official Sen/SN stats. Might be worth a call to LA Early Years department and Ipsea.

Independent schools are often ill equipped to deal with Sen and as you are discovering can charge extra for support (possibly even if you did get an ehcp) and choose not to admit a child with Sen as they are unable to provide suitable support or "invite" them to go elsewhere. Take this as a warning of the attitude further up the school. It seems unlikely to improve.Your best bet might be to look for a more supportive, probably state, school and negotiate not paying a term's notice by mutual agreement that it is an unsuitable environment for him. Did he do a taster day and what made you pick this particular school. Whether you decide to leave your dd there would probably depend on how well this handled and how much confidence you have left in them.

and, yes, you generally (although not always) have to have already put in concerted intervention and had no/ little progress. Some children do have EHCPs put in place before they start school, but in these cases the difficulties will be incredibly clear cut.

For an EHCP the DC needs to have really quite significant difficulties in one of the areas or complex (so maybe milder but across several areas) difficulties which make accessing a mainstream teaching environment basically impossible.

It varies from LEA to LEA but in my experience for school starters (I'm sure others will have had different experiences);

Learning and Cognition- at least 3-4 years 'behind' e.g. a 4yo at 12mo goals.
Communication and Interaction- 4yo zero verbal communication, probably struggling to pick up PECS
Social, Emotional, Mental Health- Multiple daily acts of aggression towards others and/or self harm
Sensory- profoundly deaf or blind, never seen a statement just for sensory integration issues.

The SEN code of practice is law in state schools. It isn't in indy schools but they are expected to give due regard to it. It states very clearly that where SEN are identified the school should undertake assess- plan-do-review cycles to try to meet the child's needs. They should coordinate appropriate involvement of other agencies and full parental involvement. This assess-plan-do-review cycling should continue to see if the child makes progress. It can incorporate planning from specialists such as ed psych or specialist teachers. If despite doing all this over time - a school's 'best endeavours' - a child isn't progressing then an EHCP can be applied for.
Really if he is snatching toys, being a bit noisy sometimes and in his own little world then that is something the school would be expected to manage.

So it isn't so much about 'exactly how bad the behaviour is' but more evidence of a process of support over time and despite this, no progress or very limited progress.

I am telling you again, this school gives me very bad vibes and my strong advice would be to remove your child immediately. Everything is more straightforward in terms of SEN support in the state sector.Your children are individuals. What is best for one isn't necessarily best for the other. But obviously you will make your own decision!

From the school's point of view their priority will be keeping the parents of the other 10 dc happy, presumably hot housing so they get "results"

Most indie schools are selective precisely because they want children who are easy to teach AND will achieve.

I agree with the others that the school is failing your child.

However I do wonder is the squealing is more of a stimming type behaviour? Maybe I'm completely off the mark but if he's finding it very stressful and feels unable to cope a lot of children with asd do make noises / movements to make themselves feel better (I'm sure you know this). If he's doing it a lot I can see that it may be disruptive to a class and why he would need more support. However the school should be looking to provide this.

I have a son with asd who is 3.5 and on the advice of the paediatrician we have started the ehcp process with a view to getting him into a specialist school. My son has a lot of issues however and would never cope in a normal nursery setting as yours obviously has. If you would like to explore the idea of an ehcp for your son contact your local councils Sen department. You can apply for an ehcp yourself, once they have reports from everyone involved in his care they will decide whether to go ahead and issue one or not. In your situation I would visit some other schools first and see if any of those seem more supportive and if not then I would apply for the ehcp now and see what happens from there.