Racist thread

I do agree that communities can sometimes feel that change is happening too fast and the CoL crisis adds to that. Makes it easier for the likes of Reform to swan in with their lies and blame it all on immigration.
A parenting website like MN being strafed with lies adds to that feeling of disengagement.
I'd like to discuss this more but I have to go out (really, not the classic MN Going Out ).
Legitimate concerns will never be dismissed by me, but facts matter and is people deliberately ignore them and keep blaming the Other then yes, they are choosing to be racist.

I was just pondering whether that might be the real reason.

I’m interested as I felt that immigration was a real success in London in the 1980s and I’m wondering why there is negativity now.

Do you know any ex-miners or miner's children? Because what you are describing just is not the case IME (married to the son of a miner).

People from those communities are often very politically aware, left leaning, and don't fall for the foreign bogeyman shit. The ones that do are racist.

Eta: tin baths made me chuckle. There were things called showers at the pits.

Nope. They were just racist.

I have no skin in the game as I’m a Londoner with immigrant parents and loved growing up in a multicultural environment.

However I do wonder whether some communities feel that their small town or village is changing too quickly and that they are losing a sense of a shared history or culture where everyone had had similar experiences. For example ( and being very Broad brush here) whilst they didn’t actually talk about the fact that most of their fathers or grandfathers worked down the pit and had their backs washed in a tin bath by the fire when they returned home, or the strikes etc, it was a shared experience and that gave them a sense of community and belonging.

I found this to be the case growing up… my Indian friends’ parents had the same need to be with others who had escaped during Partition. They didn’t talk about it all the time; but it was a shared and traumatic experience.

However when people from these small towns and villages in the UK expressed a fear that things were changing too quickly, they were branded racists. I think that this current and distasteful demonising of asylum seekers and pinning crimes on them is because they feel they need to have a “reason” to dislike immigration and that the “true” reason makes them racist.

Effective immigration tends to take a generation. My friends felt “British” ; their parents loved Britain, but many kept yo their own communities.

My fear is that if politicians don’t listen, the resentment will just simmer and eventually boil over.

Opinions are fine, lies are not. I’m not sure why that isn’t sinking in for so many posters at the moment, it must be wilful and deliberate.

Off the top of my head over the last few days:
40,000 Muslims on MI5’s terrorism watchlist - no, that’s the full total of all potential terrorist individuals.
A particular former PM gave the direct order to the police to ignore CSA gangs - nope.
Every single Traveller is a violent, littering menace - even when informed by members of the Traveller community and non-travellers like me that this is untrue, still this is rolled out time and again.
Higher levels of sexual offending amongst Afghan refugees - no, there isn’t.

Then all that incendiary guff gets extrapolated into a smarmy, false concern for “our” women and girls.

So I haven't asked you about your background, experience or knowledge. It sounds like I questioned the veracity of one of your numerous anti foreigner stories.

You have a nice day too.

@MiloMinderbinder925 not going to go into further tit and tat, but you have accused me of things in my personal life (told me I didn’t know any foreigner, isn’t that personal ?)
Also, as already stated then, I am a foreigner

Not going to engage further with the misinformation you spread, you have a lovely day

The good thing about being facts-led is that you don’t have to resort to personal ad mulierem attacks because you actually have arguments and views that fit reality, you don’t have to be overemotional, a different world, really

Yet I've never seen you present any facts, you tend to parrot whatever disinformation is doing the rounds on social media. All of which is emotion based without evidence.

I remember you asking me about my background, experience, knowledge previously, I replied in full, still hoping to get the same courtesy from you some day, I bet it won’t be long to do

I don't ask people about their personal lives online, yet more 'facts'.

You have made the same smear about Brown more than once on this site.

You think everything on the internet is true?

@MyDeftHedgehog
As well as emailing Mr Brown to apologise you might also report your post to @Mnhq to ask them to remove it. In spite of it being reported they seem to think it doesn't break talk guidelines despite it being a total lie.

The good thing about being facts-led is that you don’t have to resort to personal ad mulierem attacks because you actually have arguments and views that fit reality, you don’t have to be overemotional, a different world, really

But one has to challenge oneself intellectually and personally a lot more than with reflex sealioning or whataboutery or tropes recitation, that’s maybe where the issue lies

I remember you asking me about my background, experience, knowledge previously, I replied in full, still hoping to get the same courtesy from you some day, I bet it won’t be long to do

Talking about bigots. You're on every thread about immigrants and Muslims. Anyone would think you were obsessed. You're lecturing people on drowning out other people's opinions and not being able to have a discussion when I've seen you endlessly repeat the same crap without listening to anyone else.

I've never heard such hypocritical nonsense. Oh yes I have, on threads dominated by Reform voters, talking about unchallenged groupthink.

And sky news focusing on one single demographic in their helicopter whilst ignoring the contents of several large housing estates coming down by car from miles away and targeting the electrical, cycle and firearms shops whilst the cameras concentrated upon people with bags of rice.

You think the OP of this thread is a bigot because they object to the racism directed towards their community?

OK.

You can’t have a good discussion with people who cannot discuss: they can lecture, they definitely can patronise, they can validate each other in closed setting, but they can’t discuss differing views.

Because they don’t have views, they have beliefs. And an awful lot of them seem to have based their personality and social identity on these beliefs.

What’s the difference between an opinion and a belief? An opinion is experience or facts-led and has the possibility to evolve and change when it appears it doesn’t accurately reflect the truth; it also has room for doubt.

But when you like your opinion so much that you start to dismiss contradicting facts rather than reassess said opinion or have no more room for doubts, that’s when it turns into a belief.

And beliefs don’t debate: they drown in noise, they scream murder, they deflect, they whatabout, they call for censorship, they deny, but they ll never admit they’re after all a subjective opinion like all the others and should actually be led by facts rather than take themselves that seriously, wherever facts take them.

And God knows this has happened to a lot of progressive people. They started with well-meaning ideas and slowly turned them into beliefs through 20y of unchallenged groupthink.

That’s why you can’t really debate with them. They’re not intellectually or morally equipped anymore. They’re the bigots.

Oh yes!

A @philippageorgiou says: we see them.

There are some interesting responses on here when people don't like facts or common sense Pandora.

As @Efacsen says, we are allowed to reply to any post by any poster on any thread.

Anyway, you clearly didn't like the question.

Butt in - on a public forum 😄

@PandoraSocks is neither being rude nor butting in - unlike you she understands how this site works

It's not a private conversation - anyone can respond or reply

Agree, sadly. It’s late, the loons will appear soon so that’s me done. Night all.