To think mumsnet should explain why Gaza threads keep getting deleted?

You don't seem to be acknowledging why comments are being turned off on newspaper articles, or why your comment was deleted from WhatsApp. It's not because of 'censorship' of valid discussion. Why were Kneecap not shown on the BBC at Glastonbury? Not because they might air valid political views, but because they might start waving the Hezbollah flag or shout 'up Hamas'. People don't want that on their websites, their screens, or their local mums WhatsApp groups.

I didn’t say I was being censored- it’s not personal and I didn’t take it personally. I was using it as an example of how this topic is censored in public, and the double standards that are applied about what is allowed to be said / shared/ posted on this topic , relative to others.

You claimed you were being censored for dropping a political hot potato into your local mums WhatsApp group.

I didn’t say I was being oppressed !!
This certainly isn’t about me. I’m speaking from observation. Hence my question to that pp.

change my view on what I can clearly see- that there is a lot of work being done to shut that discussion down.

Literally a whole section for discussion of this topic on MN.

"Help, help I'm being oppressed".

It would be really interesting to know what that "wrong thing" was.

In what sense is the turning off of comments "evidence of censorship"?

Umm. It’s literally removing people’s ability to discuss the issue and share their opinion as is allowed on almost every other topic.

The fact that you are here now, on a social media platform, claiming to be censored, stopped from talking about Gaza, makes the whole concept ridiculous.

Im not suggesting it’s impossible to ever discuss Gaza on any media platform. But do I think there’s significant censorship of this topic and in many situations people have to be very careful about what they say in public. My friend lost her job for saying the wrong thing .

In my view, your agenda is to deny Jews the right to describe our lived experience

Well that’s a completely wild and unfounded interpretation of my motivations. I’m dismayed you feel that way, but it won’t stop me from discussing the horror that is unfolding in Palestine, or change my view on what I can clearly see- that there is a lot of work being done to shut that discussion down.

I don't think people have recently vandalised British military planes in the cause of 'Ukraine Action' or caused a furore at Glastonbury by calling for the death of the Russian army. And if you don't know why the comments are turned off on news articles about Gaza then perhaps you should pop over to twitter where you can see the sorts of comments that newspapers rightly don't want appearing on their websites.

You might think 'Oh I'm just dropping a neutral fundraiser into my local mums group chat' but a lot of people are thinking 'oh no, here we fucking go' and would be very relieved to see it deleted before it all kicks off.

Please tell me how posting a fundraiser for MSF in Palestine is “policing everyone into the correct opinions” and “attracts antisemitism and batshittery”, yet posting a fundraiser for MSF in Ukraine is just fine?

In what sense is the turning off of comments "evidence of censorship"?

The fact that you are here now, on a social media platform, claiming to be censored, stopped from talking about Gaza, makes the whole concept ridiculous.

In my view, your agenda is to deny Jews the right to describe our lived experience while claiming censorship of the very thing you're currently publicly discussing and which is never away from the news, general and social media.

It's political because the far left seem to have made it their rabid obsession, determined to police everyone into the 'correct' opinions and because it attracts antisemitism and all sorts of offensive batshittery. Any local mums group would be nervous.

I wasn’t “pushing an agenda” , I asked you a perfectly reasonable question in response to a point you made. You suggested that pp believed there was censorship due to latent antisemitism. However, she also referenced evidence of censorship (eg comments unprecedentedly being turned off on all media on this topic ) so I was wondering whether you accepted this.

Appreciate that you have answered.

It shouldn’t be seen as any more “political” - and therefore necessary to censor - than any other charity fundraiser for an international aid organisation. MSF don’t take sides in conflict- they deliver aid where-ever it is needed by people who are suffering. Whoever those people are, whatever their race, religion, nationality. The fact that it was viewed as “political”- dangerous and needing to be censored - because in this case they were delivering aid to Palestinian people is exactly the point.

I just find it offensive when people push an agenda at me while ignoring what I've already said.

No I don't think there's censorship in the UK. I think people can and do talk freely about the situation in Gaza whether they know anything about it or not. In my experience commenting is often turned off under such articles because they rapidly descend into a cesspit of anti-Semitism - one of the more acceptable types of race hatred - and, like Mumsnet, nobody wants to have to deal with that.

So start your own mums WhatsApp group that does allow the fundraising links. Not being able to post whatever you want on whatever platform you want isn't censorship.

Of course it's political. If you think dropping a fundraiser for Palestine into your local mums group chat isn't political then you really haven't been paying attention.

I appreciated your point, I was just genuinely curious as to whether you were denying that censorship on this topic is a thing. I hadn’t made up my mind about what you think at all - hence asking you to clarify what it is that you think . But then it appeared from your response- although you didn’t answer directly - that that was what you were getting at by your comparison with other contexts (eg Sudan).

But anyway I have no desire to push you on it as you apparently found the question uncomfy and offensive.

So what's your explanation for this? How has this mass censorship been orchestrated then?

Tbf if you you've made up your mind what my view is there's not a lot of point carrying on asking me is there?

I'm sorry that you've hit my nuanced point over the head with your "can't say anything without being accused of being anti-Semitic" brickbat but honestly? I can't do your thinking for you.

It wasn’t politics it was a charity fundraiser for MSF- an international aid organisation that provides medical services all over the world- it’s literally in their name - “without borders”.

Fundraisers for all kinds of causes have always been allowed in the chat- including international aid - and most recently many for aid relief efforts in Ukraine. This was the first time a fundraiser for aid/ charity was deleted.

People not wanting politics posted in their local mums WhatsApp group isn't censorship.

I asked you, because you asked the pp why she thought that and suggested it must be because she was antisemitic.

It sounds like you are denying that it is censored?

News articles about Sudan or Afghanistan don’t have their comments switched off and I wouldn’t have my WhatsApp post deleted in the local mums group if I shared a fundraiser for MSF in Sudan, so no, I don’t think discussing those topics is censored.

There is no genocide. There is a war, yes. People are dying, yes. It’s horrible, yes. But repeatedly calling it a genocide doesn’t make it so. And repeating such a lie turns the war’s focus on its head, jeopardises international Jewry’s safety and allows Hamas to literally get away with murder. Again.

I was at work the other day, dithering in the canteen about what drink to by. The stranger next to me said ‘you can’t buy coke as Coca Cola are complicit in genocide. I rolled my eyes and moved on. People spouting their opinions openly about intensely complex historical international
situations that none of us are qualified to fully comprehend. It’s staggering how much nonsense people come out with.

I'm not sure why you're asking me if I agree with you that discussions of Gaza are censored. That entirely misses my point which is that stereotypes of Jews are so engrained that they seem almost normal and inevitable facts of life.

I see so little about the genocides in Sudan or Eritrea in the media. Why aren't you asking if they're censored too? Are we "allowed" to discuss the obliteration of women's basic rights in Afghanistan because I don't see a lot about that - is some shadowy force suppressing our words?

It's depressing how anti semitism is so normalised that a large number of non-Jews tell us it doesn't exist. Just because you don't realise you hold underlying prejudices and assumptions, doesn't mean they don't exist.